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I thought I saw a link to a company that installed the S2000 engine into the Elise. Anyone have the link?
 

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It's never been done.

There is no trans for the F20C that can make this happen.

Frankly, the K20 from the JDM RSX-R is the better choice.
 

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It clearly states on the web page that it hasn't been done but it is planned. I just posted the link, figuring that this might be the company Jon was looking for, and that anyone else who was interested could read it for themselves. I wasn't making a claim either way on the feasibility, suitability, or superiority of the F20 over the K20.

But it sure is nice to have someone on the forum who can interpret these things for us and tell us what it wall means...
 

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John

I don't know if that was a shot at me you were taking with your last comment or not, but I wasn't trying to be a "know it all".

When you have owned a S2000 for 4 years, studied the Elise for 7 years, owned an Exige for 2 years you see a bunch of stuff. Joe @ Prototype has had this conversion on his site for some time. With the results he has obtained with the K20 motor I don't know why you would even attempt the F20 conversion. The F20 is not receptive to tuning in NA form, and the K20 can easily be upgraded as shown by many people. Not to mention the trans issue with the F20c.

So, I posted the short answer above - it hasn't been done.
 

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I've seen various internet postings talking of 275bhp from the prototype engine conversion. The best Bill Swizz got from his was 213bhp on the emerald rolling road a few weeks ago, where my standard elise got 117.1bhp (Lotus stated figure for this - 118bhp).

In other words, until proven otherwise, I treat the Honda conversion numbers with a pinch of salt.

Even with "only" 213bhp it must be a very fun car to drive - but perhaps not worth the £12,000 it costs in the UK for the conversion.

For more info on the SELOC shootout where various modified cars (a couple of hondas, and an audi turbo amongst them) were put on a rolling road - click here http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=10277&page=6

Craigy
 

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Rolling roads account for drivetrain loss. 217hp on the rolling road is probably somewhere around 240-250hp at the crank.

A stock S2000 will dyno at around 200-210hp from it's stock 240hp. Granted there is more loss with it's F/R drivetrain layout.
 

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You're slightly mistaken (but it's good that we discuss this as I want to be clear). The emerald dyno does coast-down loss analysis so these numbers reflect that the prototype car was making an estimated 213bhp at the crank - so I expect about 180bhp at the wheels.

My car (117 at the crank) was making about 95bhp at the wheels according to my graph.

By the way, one of the problems anyone installing an engine in the elise has is that there's not really anough space for an optimal manifold/exhaust system in the cramped engine bay - I suspect that the S2000 engine (F20 is it?) has a pretty good manifold and exhaust given it's in the front of the S2000. It would in other words probably make less power in an elise unless someone did something very clever with the manifold plumbing.

Craigy
 

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Here's a graph showing joes honda versus a standard honda. Joes has about 10bhp over standard on this graph.

By the way, both of these are conversions. The JDM car is an elise S1, the standard honda engine is an elise 340R.

I've left my curve on there for you to laugh at!

:)

Craigy
 

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The biggest problem with the S2000 lump is that there is no transmission available to make the conversion possible.
 

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I guess I'm confused.

How do you get crank output without the motor being placed on an engine dyno? There is no way to accurately account for drivetrain loss and the losses associated with other belt driven accessories.
 

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meat said:
I guess I'm confused.

How do you get crank output without the motor being placed on an engine dyno? There is no way to accurately account for drivetrain loss and the losses associated with other belt driven accessories.
you can measure coastdown losses on a rolling road, emerald regularly come up with figures near as dammit like those produced by engine dyno. Its an established technique and seems to work.

Its one thing you can't really do with a hub based measurement system so the USA honda figures tend to involve a bit a guesswork, seems they over guessed a bit ;)
 

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Sweetie [aka Johnboy]
Coast down estimates are B.S. and anyone who uses them is adding fudge factors to sell dyno time to certain customers. Very good marketing scheme, but it's certainly not good science.
Anyone who actually believes the figures that come out of Emerald is a moron or has his brain wired like a woman. We all know the game, never tell her the truth, just what she wants to hear and she'll keep coming back for more. Dave Walker may have some ignorant Brits fooled, but he and his methods are considered to be a joke in the real world. There are at least 10 times the dyno tuning shops just in the Los Angeles area than there are in the whole of the UK, and it's Emerald who's the odd man out, not US.
Joe
 

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Meat,
We got a new S2000 from American Honda a couple of months back and ran it on the dyno amongst other performance tests, and even though Honda still rates it at 240 HP it actually made 243 HP to the wheel flanges on a Dynapack chassis dyno, up substantially from the 210-215 F20C figures we've seen. Just a few less HP than my K20A makes, but it still didn't make as much torque, especially down low. Nor does it rev anymore, they've got it limited to 8,000, where the K20A is happy at 8,600. Due to this, as well as the cost of producing the new trans casting, I've decided to put the F-series to K-series conversion for the Elise on hold until Honda finally decides to include i-VTEC into the F-series engine. As it stands now the K20A is the better engine in terms of torque production and HP output, so I figure what's the point?
Joe
 

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Johnboy,
It's always been a fact that people who don't want to be educated can't be, unfortunately they're always the one's who need it the most. You most certainly fall into that group.
Casting Pearls before Swine simply isn't constructive use of my time, so as usual I'll ignore anything more that dribbles from your mind. Look in the mirror, there's an ignorant twit staring back at you.
Joe
 
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