[amazingjason]

Given the choice, would you be more interested in/excited about the S3 Elise if it was 1800 lbs. with 180 hp or 2300 lbs. with 230 hp.? Assume that the lighter, less powerful version would be more spartan, and the heavier, more powerful version would have more bells and whistles.

Jason

 

[darkSol]

1800 lbs. with 320hp

 

[Demonized]

Oops I voted 2300 230hp, thought it said 1800 230 for some reason.

 

[apk919]

Two words: Add Lightness!

 

[masheen]

- when the weight/power ratio stays the same, but power goes down:
acceleration at 80 mph + suffers.

- when the weight/power ratio stays the same, but weight goes down:
handling improves

in the particular choices offered, 2300 lb is still pretty nice for handling benefits while 180 hp starts showing weakness, even at the smaller tracks i drive.

so i voted 2300/230.

still, i think 1800/180 up to even 2100/210 is quite similar.

depends a lot on how accessible the power is too, which the hp number on its own does not address.

i kind of like my current 1900/190 (but less than what i imagined it would be like before living with it for couple of years). even though i voted for it, i wouldn't pay more for 2300/230.

but i'd really like 1800 lb with 280 hp.

 

[Brennon]

The next generation elise really needs to be a minimum of 300 horsepower to compete with the cars in its price range.

 

[Minnis]

i didn't read that "prefer" part. I think it probably will weigh more just like all Lotuses past i.e. Elan, Esprit, and even the Super 7 all gained weight and power.

 

[the1sen]

I would like to see the Elise with options like this:

230 HP engine standard

Package A - Racers package, sport trim, five point harness, no stereo, no nothing, wicked suspension, Big Brakes, the most lightness added at 1800-1900 LBS

Package B - Sport Package for the street driver who goes to the track, leather trim, audible stereo, a/c, maybe some nifty wheel options, damned good suspension, second lightest at 1900-2000 LBS

Package C - Street Package for the driver whose car will never see a track, leather trimmed seats, a nice stereo, a/c, some additional leather covered surfaces, a cup holder, HID Headlamps, maybe some insulation for better temperature protection, some damned nifty suspension, other wheel options, fattest of the S3's weighing in at 2000-2100 LBS

This would be great for adding lightness to the hardcore racers car, and would accommodate those who may want a Lotus for every other reason than driving it on the track...

Just a thought

 

[Demonized]

I would like to see the Elise with options like this:

230 HP engine standard

Package A - Racers package, sport trim, five point harness, no stereo, no nothing, wicked suspension, Big Brakes, the most lightness added at 1800-1900 LBS

Package B - Sport Package for the street driver who goes to the track, leather trim, audible stereo, a/c, maybe some nifty wheel options, damned good suspension, second lightest at 1900-2000 LBS

Package C - Street Package for the driver whose car will never see a track, leather trimmed seats, a nice stereo, a/c, some additional leather covered surfaces, a cup holder, HID Headlamps, maybe some insulation for better temperature protection, some damned nifty suspension, other wheel options, fattest of the S3's weighing in at 2000-2100 LBS

This would be great for adding lightness to the hardcore racers car, and would accommodate those who may want a Lotus for every other reason than driving it on the track...

Just a thought

I'm basically with you, Standard 220-240hp, full CF body for A and B, fiberglass for C.

 

[the1sen]

I'm basically with you, Standard 220-240hp, full CF body for A and B, fiberglass for C.

The niftiest part about this 3-model-setup is that most of the people who would own a Lotus would fit in one of those categories EASILY and be willing to pay for a turn-key solution to their desired model; even if it's hard to get in and out of it.

It is a win/win for the manufacturer and customer.

And although I have another 94000 miles left to go on my car before I sell/retire it, I would be tickled pink to see that happen for my next Lotus.

 

[LotusStig22]

Power to weight calculation. Lighter: 0.0907715582451 HP/Lb
Heavier: .1 Horsepower per Pound. If my math serves me well .1 > .09 by a tad.
So technically, wouldn't the second be better?

 

[lotus69f2]

An 1800lb car with 180hp will handle better than a heavier car with the same hp/weight ratio. As with the current Elis,e hp can be increased, but it is unlikely that weight will get decreased if the starting point is 2300.

Having said that, while purists would prefer a lighter leaner Elise, the market reality is that those cars will sell only in small nmbers so I think it more likely that as the Elise is developed it will be heavier, but a better all around car, while preserving its stellar handling. I also think it likely that, as the design gains weight, Lotus will continue to examine the car minutely to be sure that weight gains are kept to a minumum and the chassis is tweaked to minimize its impact.

 

[LotusStig22]

An 1800lb car with 180hp will handle better than a heavier car with the same hp/weight ratio. As with the current Elis,e hp can be increased, but it is unlikely that weight will get decreased if the starting point is 2300.

Having said that, while purists would prefer a lighter leaner Elise, the market reality is that those cars will sell only in small nmbers so I think it more likely that as the Elise is developed it will be heavier, but a better all around car, while preserving its stellar handling. I also think it likely that, as the design gains weight, Lotus will continue to examine the car minutely to be sure that weight gains are kept to a minumum and the chassis is tweaked to minimize its impact.

+1. That makes sense I think. You can always risk a few pounds by getting more horsepower. But getting rid of excess weight in the same quantity might be more difficult.

 

[Simba]

Kind of depends on the specifics of the engine. For example, if it's a 230hp N/A (unlikely), then I'd rather have the lighter car with the 180hp engine as a base point for making it fast.

However, if the 230hp car has a larger displacement, or is already using forced induction and hence will respond much better to breathing modifications, and also assuming that the extra 300-odd pounds is creature comfort fluff that can be easily yanked out, I'd go that route.

 

[Aedo]

It is always easier to add horsepower to a light car than remove weight from a heavier one – so I voted 1800/180. The aftermarket will always supply more power to those who want it

Two words: Add Lightness!

:up:

The next generation elise really needs to be a minimum of 300 horsepower to compete with the cars in its price range.

I disagree that a minimum HP figure needs to be met to sell the car – and 300hp is significantly above even the top of the range track only cars so hard to see that big a leap ever happening.

Also the actual base Elise is currently the "Elise S" which has 134hp and sells very well outside the US. The " R" (the same as the Fed Elise) and “SC” are the high spec versions.

 

[ewalberg]

I'm with Aedo.... but i do think they may want to consider more interior options or ways of making the car quiter on longer drives. Realistically it's pretty darned comfy on long drives... just too damned loud. (i have sport pack and no touring pack, standard exhaust, and i'm assuming the trouring foam behind the seat doesn't help all that much.

 

[LotusStig22]

It is always easier to add horsepower to a light car than remove weight from a heavier one – so I voted 1800/180. The aftermarket will always supply more power to those who want it


:up:


I disagree that a minimum HP figure needs to be met to sell the car – and 300hp is significantly above even the top of the range track only cars so hard to see that big a leap ever happening.

Also the actual base Elise is currently the "Elise S" which has 134hp and sells very well outside the US. The " R" (the same as the Fed Elise) and “SC” are the high spec versions.

That's what I thought Mr. Steve. Therefore the lighter version would actually be better, because TurboPhil is working on a 275 Whp Elise Supercharger Kit, and had Lotus made a 275 whp Elise, but added half a tonne (ton?), it would have been harder to lighten, yes?

 

[...m...]

...i think the lighter, lower-powered car would better fit its pure sportscar niche in lotus' lineup under the evora, but i think the heavier, higher-powered car would be considerably more marketable and probably a better business decision...besides, lotus always has the two-eleven as a hardcore stripped-down track toy option...

 

[LotusStig22]

...M, that's true. And the OP said, "The Heavier version would have more bells and whistles". Could those Bells and Whistles be taken out to reduce the weight? I mean really, who needs A/C?... (Yeah, I just took your signature "...------..." style. rotfl)

 

[Brennon]

It is always easier to add horsepower to a light car than remove weight from a heavier one – so I voted 1800/180. The aftermarket will always supply more power to those who want it


:up:


I disagree that a minimum HP figure needs to be met to sell the car – and 300hp is significantly above even the top of the range track only cars so hard to see that big a leap ever happening.

Also the actual base Elise is currently the "Elise S" which has 134hp and sells very well outside the US. The " R" (the same as the Fed Elise) and “SC” are the high spec versions.

To be realistic, the majority of people in the US do not use this car as a 'track only car'. They're already pushing it to 260 with the Exige S. A Z06 has a power to weight ratio of 5.45-5.28 lbs / horsepower with the Exige S260 at 7.8 lbs / horsepower. I know there's more to the Elise/Exige than simple performance numbers, but at some point in time we need to be realistic and look at the price of the car in comparison to its competition.

I'm looking at this from the perspective of how they're actually going to push cars in the US. How many people were screaming that the Evora is underpowered in comparison to its competition? For all intents and purposes it is.