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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all - put this here for greater visibility over the Solo and Timed Events/Suspension forum.

For those who are familiar, do you have any specific info about the "SS legal Ohlins kit?"

I have some Ohlins D/As, with the big knob for rebound; that knob changes the perch-eyelet distance, which is illegal in SCCA Super Stock - I need to get that knob changed into a screw, which is seemingly part of the "kit."

I've spoken with both OhlinsUSA and Performance Shock about it; both get it, but neither knew specifically how to make it go - was hoping that someone here had a part number, or contact at _______, something that I can give to Performance/Ohlins to help them find the bits I need.

Thanks!



Iain
 

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Do you plan on running at national tour events? More importantly, do you think you will WIN (or Trophy) at national tour events?

If not, I wouldn't worry about it. Unless you have complete jerks in your local region, the other competitors should let the "rule violation" slide.

I'm not suggesting you "cheat." I would let the other competitors in your class know and see if they are okay with it.

IMHO, such a rule only really matters at Nationals, if that. Seems like a weenie challenge to me if somebody would raise a stink about it. Not to say that if you won Nationals you wouldn't get DSQ'ed because of it.

I don't see any performance advantage. Any suspension wizards out there can correct me if I am wrong.

If you want to talk to somebody much more knowledgeable about SCCA rules and Ohlins than I am, I would suggest Fred Zust. He is a 4 time SCCA national champion AND he sells the shocks on his site blackwatchracing.com
 

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fil, reading your response is.... frustrating, to say the least. move along, nothing to see here.

iain, i still have the boxes malcolm passed along when i bought his car for the SS-spec'd ohlins he bought; the model/UPC codes read (there are 3 per shock):

Lotus Elise lf 36 HRC, USA / TLOV 1F12.120323 / LOV 1F12 / 1PLOV 1F12
Lotus Elise rf 36 HRC, USA / TLOV 2F12.120324 / LOV 2F12 / 1PLOV 2F12
Lotus Elise lr 36 HRC, USA / TLOV 3F12.120325 / LOV 3F12 / 1PLOV 3F12
Lotus Elise rr 36 HRC, USA / TLOV 4F12.120326 / LOV 4F12 / 1PLOV 4F12

HOWEVER, they're also scratched out with handwriting that says "SCCA SPEC", and as you mention, they have a flathead screw for adjusting rebound (along with a remote reservoir for compression).
i know S111 used to sell them, so it might be worth giving shinoo a ring to ask him who he dealt with. not sure if the ones fred is selling are the same, but it never hurts to give him a call, he can usually point you in the right direction if nothing else.
 

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The SCCA rules can be a bit tough. When my car was purchased, it had a front spoiler on it, but no other performance mods. In the strict interpretation of the rules, the spoiler (which gives some protection from tagged cones) moved the car into SSM class. I eventually accepted the fact the car was SSM and proceeded to perform other modifications to make the car more competitive with the SSM PAX handicap. Hopefully, you will find the ideal SS-legal shock. A Lotus maxxed out for SS class can do rather well, both locally and regionally.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Perfect, thanks, Dennis! That may help. I'll call Fred/S111, too, duh.

I hope they can get it sorted, if not, I'll have a set of Ohlins for sale soon & go camp out on Ryan's lawn until he comes to his senses and sells me his.



Iain
 

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fil, reading your response is.... frustrating, to say the least. move along, nothing to see here.
What do you mean? I not telling him to cheat. I'm suggesting if he only wants to race locally he should check with the rest of the SS class in his region whether they care before he spends a lot of time trying to be compliant.
 

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that knob changes the perch-eyelet distance, which is illegal in SCCA Super Stock - I need to get that knob changed into a screw, which is seemingly part of the "kit."
I'm still searching for the question here.

If the question is "Is it legal to run Super Stock with a non-stock perch height?", the answer is an easy "No".

Could you walk into a Lotus dealer, pick this set of dampers off the factory options sheet and say, "Sell me this car"? I think not.

I think if you weld the perch in the stock position, the damper is legal.

What does the concept of "kit" have to do with Super Stock?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Phil - the Ohlins double adjustables are stock legal BEYOND the fact that the rebound knob changes the distance between the eyelet and perch.

Back in 05 or 06, there was a "SS legal Ohlins kit" out there somewhere. From what I've read about it, it was a collection of Ohlins bits. Unfortunately, when I was reading about it, I was still under the impression that my shocks _were_ the stock legal shocks - I discovered that they are NOT "SS Legal Ohlins" when I swapped springs. I'd not paid too much attention to the "kit" business, because I did not think it applied to me. Unfortunately, it does.

The "kit" basically replaces the knob with a screw, which in turn brings the perch back to stock-legal.



Iain
 

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I spoke with Ohlins direct awhile back about the kit and they said they don't have the parts or even the drawings to make the parts anymore. They made the one batch of parts initially and it took so long to sell those that they never made them again. So if you are running the non-stock legal Ohlins your SOL on making them stock legal unless you can find a performance shop willing to custom design the parts and make them for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
See the big black knob? Putting that between the perch and eyelet changes the distance.

Using a screw-type (or round disc with holes, adjust with "sweeps") adjuster brings the eyelet-perch back to spec.

Make sense?

 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
What do you mean? I not telling him to cheat. I'm suggesting if he only wants to race locally he should check with the rest of the SS class in his region whether they care before he spends a lot of time trying to be compliant.
Same old internerd "holier-than-thou" stuff, really. On one hand, I get what you're saying. OTOH, the rules are important.

Every now and then, someone posts on a forum - "I'm going to my first autocross, but I have a micromirror, what should I do?" - your response is valid.

A post like mine? One that I had to explain to Phil (who has been autocrossing forEVER)? Someone worried about a technical, but non-trivial illegality?

To answer your question:

FIL said:
Do you plan on running at national tour events? More importantly, do you think you will WIN (or Trophy) at national tour events?
Yes.



Iain
 

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If it matters I would also be interested in a SS legal solution short of custom motons or penskes. If we can convince Ohlins to open the books to new orders I would be interested in a group buy.
 

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Same old internerd "holier-than-thou" stuff, really. On one hand, I get what you're saying. OTOH, the rules are important.

Every now and then, someone posts on a forum - "I'm going to my first autocross, but I have a micromirror, what should I do?" - your response is valid.

A post like mine? One that I had to explain to Phil (who has been autocrossing forEVER)? Someone worried about a technical, but non-trivial illegality?

To answer your question:



Yes.



Iain
Fair enough. Aside from the issue of technical legality, is there any performance advantage to changing the distance between the perch and eyelet? You still have to run the same length spring. Does it change the suspension dynamics in anyway? I know a lot of people run these shocks.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Fair enough. Aside from the issue of technical legality, is there any performance advantage to changing the distance between the perch and eyelet? You still have to run the same length spring. Does it change the suspension dynamics in anyway? I know a lot of people run these shocks.
In this direction, no, I don't think there's any advantage whatsoever. I SUPPOSE one could argue that more of the spring is sprung weight, but it really is incremental.

The shock rules are weird, and have to be written to accommodate _all_ cars - moving the perch CLOSER to the eyelet could result in ride height changes; if you read the shock rule closely, it allows for a fair bit of variance in overall length, compressed length, etc - by mandating that eyelet-perch stays stock, it eliminates/reduces possible abuse in the OTHER direction.

That's the trick with rules for Solo; there are several things which "should" be allowed, or would not matter if they WERE allowed *for that car*, but the advisory committees and SEB have to look at a potential allowance from a "what ELSE does this allow?" standpoint.

In the case of the Lotus, the rule is annoying and expensive.

Big picture, it makes sense. Writing a rule which allows the Ohlins as they sit while simultaneously DISallowing trickery with overall length and spring perches and and and is darned near impossible.

I would not protest a car with these shocks.

I might find myself wondering what OTHER rules the competitor "did not think mattered," though.

I'll not show up at Nationals with these shocks; I do plan on doing well - I may, I may not - and I'd not feel right about it. Yes, it is trivial. No, it would not be "why I beat _______." I'd still not feel right.

At National level competition (Nationals proper, really, Tours are casual by comparison), there's some leeway - when I put my last car together, I took off all the body trim (legal in SP), welded the holes shut, painted the car, lovely.

At one point, I was putting a giant sticker across the trunk area - where the license plate used to be. I found myself thinking about getting the sticker around the license plate lights.....

....WHICH USED TO SCREW ON RIGHT HERE.

Doh!

I'd welded THOSE holes shut, too.

So, I put the license plate lights in a bag, taped them up in duct tape and zip tied them to the INSIDE of the trunk, on the other side of the wall.

It was something of a joke, a fun brain teaser - "I can see the one illegality of the car from here" I'd tell people. No one could figure it out, til I showed them. Everyone thought it was funny, some thought I was crazy to put the lights in the trunk - "who cares, they're trim!" Nah, they're lights. Can't run without them, and it was more comfortable and convenient to not drill holes in some of the best paint on the car;).

That car won 3 national championships, trophied every time it went to Nationals (pretty sure....maybe not in 04?), it was competitive, and technically illegal.

We all thought that was funny, really. No one cared about THAT.

Shocks? Stock category? Stock category in _general_, it has to be _right_. Stock is stock.

I'm sure there are lots of people with these shocks, running "illegally." I don't hold it against them, I get why they do. Heck, I could probably run in our local indexed class with them as a SS car and no one would really care (our indexed class has a lot of nationally competitive drivers). I'm not going to, though.

If one of those people shows up at Nationals and does well enough to attract attention, though, they should not be too upset when they get tossed. It is not an "if," but a "when." If someone protests you for that, I'm 99.9% sure the penalty will be DSQ. I've served on the Nationals PC many years (as well as the SPAC/SEB), I'd absolutley vote "disqualify" on spring perch changes, competitive advantage or not.

Missing bit of trim? Whatever. Reprimand.

Shocks? Vacuum lines? Wheel offset 1mm wrong? Sorry, bye - stock is stock.

For a "local only" competitor, sure, whatever, but at a certain point, the car has to be right.




Iain
 
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