Oh, and fishguy, I don't personally know you and I understand you concern and need to educate people on safety. But how do you qualify as a person of safety. I don't think i't cool to drop the dime as you did on the company who provides the grommets without an incedent or proof thay they are unsafe. You just assume they are. I do too, to a degree, but you don't know for sure. Do you work for the DOT or something? I'm just looking at both sides of the story here. I agree with RichS though. There is no need to keep slandering the company. You have many post on this topic and I'm sure anyone looking to do this mod will find many of those post.
fair enough, and thanks for the thoughtful post macdady.
I dropped the dime as you put it because i see a history of (lack of)testing products that is as follows.
1) the lidbone, went out to market, found out that it couldnt do the job as advertised, then had an upgrade sold after the fact. shows me not much testing prior to being sent out to market
2) the 4tress harness bar was sold and then placed on clearance when it was determined (by someone other than the vendor)that it was not the correct height for most end users and was not safe. no problem with that except that this info that it was not the right height for most people was never mentioned
when put on clearance...........makes me think the seller does not care about the SAFETY of the end user, and is more concerned with the bottom line in business. again also not much testing in its applied use other than it fit into the car, and not in its intended usage.
3) the tow hook, epic failure in its first outing. again doesnt show much in the way of testing before being approved to be sold.
4) the seat grommet issue i bring again seeing this pattern of 'behavior"
I dont really care about items #1, or #3, as it just a car that gets damged in a failure, but items #2, and #4 are safety for a person, and IMO, its just not cool to be peddling this crap w/o a concern for the end user.
my qualifications are none more than seeing guys wadding their cars every weekend when i am racing. most just walk away, but i do see guys getting choppered out to the hospital. the last one i watched have that happen didnt even have any padding on his cage, and the car did pass tech. he hit his head so hard, he was sleeping at the wheel when help arrived.
I have also crashed my cars, though as bad as things i have witnesses, but it gives me RESPECT for what i am doing, and the forces that happen when retrained.
IMO, one doesnt have to be an expert with a degree. just having things happen to oneself, and seeing things that happen around you is an equally good way to become educated when you are tuned in.
I ask questions as to why something is good or bad when its presented as a rule at the track.
I do know that you do not want the holes in a seat to be able to bind up the harness. lets forget all the other arguments against the seat grommets, those holes are way to small and restrictive. lok at the size of the hole compared to the exige seats. that alone should be the end of the issue. look at the pictures in my post above, the woman is small, the teeshirt guy looks average, and the holes are obviosly mispalced, and then the bigboy in the seat is,.............well he is a projectile waiting to happen when those seats let go under the strain of the harness.
i am NOT slandering the company, i am bringing to attention this product, and since I am being pressed, i am showing a history of poor designs going to market that are flawed.
this one bothers me to no end, because someone is going to end up hurt.
this product is a joke.
I understand its a good intentioned solution, but its not the approach to take with this type of item. save that for the lidbones, and tow hooks where is an easily fixed car that gets hurt, not a person.
so when this company emphasises a high standard of quality in its products i applaud them. i want to beleive them, but does this seat grommet, and its applied use, show a "high quality of standard"?
do i, or anyone else, need to be a PHD to see this?
c'mon people wake up and look at this item.
RichS, since you seem to love this item so much, how about i buy one for you as long as YOU promise to use it for your trackdays. you said the group you run with allows it out there:crazyeyes.
I will buy it for you as long as you show me proof that it is you driving the car with it, at all your trackdays.
I also noticed that the seller of this item is doing TT with the LCS. my question was never answered , do the seller of this item use it himself while he is tracking his car?
I would even be happy if there were just a large disclaimer on the website, and sent to all those who have bought this thing in the past saying NOT to use it on the track ever, or the street, or for anything other than AXing.
remember, just because someone is/isnt qualified on paper, that does not mean that they do, or do not know what they are talking about.
I underlined the last part of the quote because this assumes that everyone who owns a lotus is on this site, this isnt even close to the truth, so just because its posted on this site, it doesnt mean anything in reality for the end user.
i guess with my list of #1-3 it might look like i am attacking the vendor( I am not), but since i am being pressed so hard by so many, i decided to show the events that opened my eyes up.
RichS,
let me know about the set of grommets, and if you take me up on the offer, i need a way to know that i can verify that you are using them at all your trackday events.
i will then pay for this item for you.