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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any thoughts out there regarding the shiftec system for a sequential equipped Lotus (Quaife)?

Perhaps there are other systems out there, I know DRS has one too.

What is needed (ecu?) etc?
What kind of cost is involved for a full system?
What is the reliability?

Are there better options?
 

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I have used Geartronics on several cars now, for me, it's proven to be the most comprehensive option, and when I have hit configuration limits, they have made updates to the SW to deal with them.
 

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Simon,
I looked at Geartronic's site, but it was unclear if it supports the stock (non-sequential) transmission which need both front/back plus crossgate motion. Do you know if it works with a stock C64 transmission, or is it essentially for sequential transmission only.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Geartronic so requires a drive by wire ecu, correct? Meaning you cannot run the stock ecu. Can you run any flat shift system with the stock ecu?
 

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Simon,
I looked at Geartronic's site, but it was unclear if it supports the stock (non-sequential) transmission which need both front/back plus crossgate motion. Do you know if it works with a stock C64 transmission, or is it essentially for sequential transmission only.
Not sure you understand what the difference between a sequential gearbox shifter and a sequencer for a manual box are?

Geartronics/Shiftec etc work with sequential boxes, NOT H gate.

can you imagine how long a C64 box will survive having a pneumatic changer ramming into gear?
 

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Geartronic so requires a drive by wire ecu, correct? Meaning you cannot run the stock ecu. Can you run any flat shift system with the stock ecu?
no.

they have an pneumatic throttle blipper for cable throttle application.
there are two basic tyres:

this is the cable mounted one (as in it fit's into the cable)


this is the pusher type:


no reason you can't do this with the stock ECU (several people have)

if you have drive by wire, then there are boxes available that go between the pedal and ECU and have a pre-set throttle position for blipping (bit like the throttle re-map boxes but with a switched fix position).

I have seen some have emulated this function with a switched resistor network and also one that was a pneumatic blipper on the pedal.
 

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Simon,
I agree the product is optimized for sequential transmissions. As crappy as the stock cable-connected shifting mechanism is, I wondered if there was another way to skin the cat. I.E. A smart box which sits on the transmission, which rotates the connections where the two cables are connected, which come from the shifter. Then hall effect sensors within the shifter, which report when it is in 1st, 2nd, etc. The shifter itself would require a latching double H mechanism in it to keep the shifter within proximity of the hall sensor, until you intentionally move it to another gear. The signals from the shifter would tell the smart mechanism on the transmission to (hopefully softly) rotate and engage the appropriate gear the shifter is asking for. It would be best if it was nothing as violent as a pneumatic plunger (unless it used soft centering springs to give the gears time to mesh). It would eliminate the "mushy shifter" complaint, and should read the wheel speed sensors, and prevent downshift-overspin of the engine (Example: won't allow the transmission to go into first gear at speeds over 43MPH). Certainly paddle shift could be used, but some people like the feeling of having a stick shifter. Just armchair theorizing; I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers. I realize there are several shifter mods which make it "less-bad", but none of the mods make the shifter feel snick-snick smooth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for that clarity. I emailed them directly and got this response:

If it’s electronic (drive-by-wire) throttle and a stock ECU then it’s definitely not one of our systems. The only way to operate the electronic throttle safely is to use an aftermarket engine ECU with a dedicated throttle blip function.

Can you provide the part number and or link and I can start again?
 

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Thanks for that clarity. I emailed them directly and got this response:

If it’s electronic (drive-by-wire) throttle and a stock ECU then it’s definitely not one of our systems. The only way to operate the electronic throttle safely is to use an aftermarket engine ECU with a dedicated throttle blip function.

Can you provide the part number and or link and I can start again?
??

part number for what?

It's been done by at least a couple of people that run in Lotus Cup UK on their 211's, I know Neil is aware of them, spoken about it to him, my guess is he does not want to get involved because of the safety issue.

the box I have seen is a German thing, was developed by a company that makes re-map boxes to sharpen up the pedal response on DBW cars, they did one with a simple trigger input from the CGU to then 'move' the pedal to a fixed position (set with a pot), was a pretty neat solution.

I have never had the need to use one so not chased it up (always used programmable ECU's)
 

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re: DBW and throttle blip

There have been well documented cases of 'unintended acceleration' with all kinds of DBW and just electronic IAC (prevent engine dying when the throttle is rapidly shut). It would be very easy to make an electronic 'blipper' for any DBW system. The throttle is just 2 pots (2 for safety). Wire a transistor in parallel and when the transistor opens (with the blip signal) the computer will think you floored it or any other position...

The reason why nobody does it for stock systems are the well documented class action suits. It it is mis-installed or misfires, the manufacturer will be put out of business. Like all race parts, something will happen for whatever reason... So it is just not worth the risk in NA.

Anton

??

part number for what?

It's been done by at least a couple of people that run in Lotus Cup UK on their 211's, I know Neil is aware of them, spoken about it to him, my guess is he does not want to get involved because of the safety issue.

the box I have seen is a German thing, was developed by a company that makes re-map boxes to sharpen up the pedal response on DBW cars, they did one with a simple trigger input from the CGU to then 'move' the pedal to a fixed position (set with a pot), was a pretty neat solution.

I have never had the need to use one so not chased it up (always used programmable ECU's)
 

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There have been well documented cases of 'unintended acceleration' with all kinds of DBW and just electronic IAC (prevent engine dying when the throttle is rapidly shut). It would be very easy to make an electronic 'blipper' for any DBW system. The throttle is just 2 pots (2 for safety). Wire a transistor in parallel and when the transistor opens (with the blip signal) the computer will think you floored it or any other position...

The reason why nobody does it for stock systems are the well documented class action suits. It it is mis-installed or misfires, the manufacturer will be put out of business. Like all race parts, something will happen for whatever reason... So it is just not worth the risk in NA.

Anton
so, what's the difference between this and a mechanical blipper that could go wrong and jam the throttle?

as I am sure you are more than aware, none of this stuff is sanctioned for road use, so exactly what's the relevance of bringing it up?

out of interest, the pedal box re-map solution made and sold in Germany is actually TUV approved (ie, tested and approved for road cars).

Next?
 

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Thanks for that clarity. I emailed them directly and got this response:

If it’s electronic (drive-by-wire) throttle and a stock ECU then it’s definitely not one of our systems. The only way to operate the electronic throttle safely is to use an aftermarket engine ECU with a dedicated throttle blip function.

Can you provide the part number and or link and I can start again?
Barry,

I know that the stand-alone EFI ECU has provision to program in "flat shift" and "auto-blip" -- that's what Kris at DRS is using on his client's GT4 2-Eleven. I also believe the 2-11 Chris was working on (Alan Wilzig's) got there using the SSC's ECU.

Also, Fastworks is planning to add this programming feature to their firmware for the stock (Lotus-EFI) ECU. Check with Phil on timing -- I know it's a low priority item, given the limited market/demand for this feature at this time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have sent a message to the BOE folks. Now I wait for a reply.
This weekend I hit the track for two days, and again next weekend. I'm insanely excited. Lots of changes.
 

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re: Paddle shifting for H-pattern

Simon is correct in saying that H-pattern synchromeshes are a totally different concept that purpose-built sequentials...

There are people providing solutions. My friends went to SEMA and were talking about a few at the show. IKEA (not the furniture company) has been building kits for a few years.

Anton

Simon,
I agree the product is optimized for sequential transmissions. As crappy as the stock cable-connected shifting mechanism is, I wondered if there was another way to skin the cat. I.E. A smart box which sits on the transmission, which rotates the connections where the two cables are connected, which come from the shifter. Then hall effect sensors within the shifter, which report when it is in 1st, 2nd, etc. The shifter itself would require a latching double H mechanism in it to keep the shifter within proximity of the hall sensor, until you intentionally move it to another gear. The signals from the shifter would tell the smart mechanism on the transmission to (hopefully softly) rotate and engage the appropriate gear the shifter is asking for. It would be best if it was nothing as violent as a pneumatic plunger (unless it used soft centering springs to give the gears time to mesh). It would eliminate the "mushy shifter" complaint, and should read the wheel speed sensors, and prevent downshift-overspin of the engine (Example: won't allow the transmission to go into first gear at speeds over 43MPH). Certainly paddle shift could be used, but some people like the feeling of having a stick shifter. Just armchair theorizing; I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers. I realize there are several shifter mods which make it "less-bad", but none of the mods make the shifter feel snick-snick smooth.
 

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... snip
There are people providing solutions. My friends went to SEMA and were talking about a few at the show. IKEA (not the furniture company) has been building kits for a few years.

Anton
Did you mean IKEYA??

SEQUEN SHIFTER
PADDLE SHIFT

interestingly enough, they also have dog mission internals for Lotus 2ZZ :shrug:
MISSION PARTS
 

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Barry,

I know that the stand-alone EFI ECU has provision to program in "flat shift" and "auto-blip" -- that's what Kris at DRS is using on his client's GT4 2-Eleven. I also believe the 2-11 Chris was working on (Alan Wilzig's) got there using the SSC's ECU.

Also, Fastworks is planning to add this programming feature to their firmware for the stock (Lotus-EFI) ECU. Check with Phil on timing -- I know it's a low priority item, given the limited market/demand for this feature at this time.

I setup Alan's car is tuning the Elise parts ecu aka gems and shiftec. Very happy with that combination. I need to post up a thread on that build... Just no time!


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 

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quick question regarding this

i, too, am looking to remove the H pattern and change it to sequantial

are these kits similar to the porsche that are just bolt on without removing the transmission and still requires you to engage with the clutch for up/down shifts?

main reason im doing this is for how sloppy the shifter feels at the track and rather doing normal fixes i thought about doing this since i know porsche owners do this type of conversion all the time
 
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