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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok. Here is the situation:

8-10 year old girl's softball league. End of the year tournament. Rangers vs Expos. Rangers have beaten the Expos in 2 of 4 games this year, including the Expos' 1st loss in a double elimination tournament. Pretty well matched teams.

Rangers are at bat.

Runner on 1st.

Batter hits the ball directly over the first basegirl's head into the outfield. She runs to first, tags the bag, turns right and steps back on the bag. The ball then gets thrown to the first basegirl and she steps just off of the base after catching the throw. Runner beat the throw by several seconds.

Umpire makes no call.

Expos' coach yells to the Ranger player, "You're out." Umpire makes no sound or motion.

Ranger player steps off of the bag, believing she has been called out and begins to head to the dugout.

Expos' coach yells, "Tag her!" First basegirl tags Ranger player.

Umpire calls her out.

Remembering that these are 8 to 10 year old girls, What is your call?

EDIT for clarification: Coaches are not allowed to yell at/ talk to/ address/ ref / call safe or out/ etc the opposing team's players in any way. Because of that, this girl thought that the umpire had called her out.
 

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Here we go........
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh, yeah. That happened. But as usual, nothing changed -- she remained out.

So, what's your call?
 

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Out!


But the coach who called her out is a jerk. 8-10 is not too young to learn a lesson about recognizing the proper authority.
 

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Given that it was 8-10 year olds I'd have called her safe and warned the opposing coach not to do that, reminding HIM that it's 8-10 year olds.

It's one thing for the other 8-10 year olds to yell 'hey batter, batter ...swing'. It's totally different for the coaches. I'd unfortunately chalk this up to the apparently increasing group of idiot parents who are making up for their own failings as athletes themselves.

The umps got to do the right thing in this case, even if the coaches don't. Just my $0.02.
 

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Question - were the officials/umpires officiating this game adults, or kids themselves? If they were adults, a time-out should have been called, where this was CALMLY discussed with the head umpire, and the offending coach should have been WARNED.

With "kid" umpires (even 15-16year old "trained" boys), unfortunately this type of manipulation is something I see all too often. In that case, the only recourse will not affect the game at hand (obviously) - but it is to formally complain/notify the proper league officials, player agent, or the officiating management of the incident, post-game.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
My call is that someone is a douche.
Out!


But the coach who called her out is a jerk. 8-10 is not too young to learn a lesson about recognizing the proper authority.
The coaches are not allowed to yell to the opposing team at all. She actually thought that the umpire had called her out. I should have made that more clear. I will edit that original post.

RoadDad, I hope you're not the Expos' coach.
Oh, heavens no. I also think the guy's a douche and took advantage of a child.
Given that it was 8-10 year olds I'd have called her safe and warned the opposing coach not to do that, reminding HIM that it's 8-10 year olds.

It's one thing for the other 8-10 year olds to yell 'hey batter, batter ...swing'. It's totally different for the coaches. I'd unfortunately chalk this up to the apparently increasing group of idiot parents who are making up for their own failings as athletes themselves.

The umps got to do the right thing in this case, even if the coaches don't. Just my $0.02.
In this league, in response to the nationwide beatings that occur at kid's sporting events, there is no chanting/etc allowed by the opposing team. The batting team can cheer on the batting girl but that is it. Coaches can talk to their players but are not allowed to address the other team players at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Question - were the officials/umpires officiating this game adults, or kids themselves? If they were adults, a time-out should have been called, where this was CALMLY discussed with the head umpire, and the offending coach should have been WARNED.

With "kid" umpires (even 15-16year old "trained" boys), unfortunately this type of manipulation is something I see all too often. In that case, the only recourse will not affect the game at hand (obviously) - but it is to formally complain/notify the proper league officials, player agent, or the officiating management of the incident, post-game.
Adult officials.
 

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Clearly, a lawyer is needed at this point! (See below for today's example of litigation in the context of children's baseball teams.)

June 26, 2008
New Tune on Campus: Take Me Out to the Ballgame, and Bring My Lawyer

In Evanston, Ill., the great American pastime of baseball is being displaced by the threat of another popular American sport — litigation.

Since 2000, Northwestern University has allowed children’s baseball teams from nearby communities to use its Rocky Miller Park for games.

But the university recently told the American Legion-sponsored baseball clubs in Evanston and Wilmette, Ill., that they were no longer welcome because the parents of a young pitcher were threatening a lawsuit, reports the Pioneer Local, a local newspaper.

The parents were concerned about the safety of the park because the sun shines into the eyes of the pitcher.

In a message to the ballclubs, Northwestern’s assistant athletics director of facilities, Scott Arey, wrote, “Unfortunately, Northwestern University is not able to do anything to mitigate the sun’s effect on the vision of the pitcher, so we have made the unfortunate decision that we can no longer safely host these games.” —Eric Kelderman
 

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She should have been safe period. if she ran down the base line touched first base and
continued running through the base hooking right into foul territory. as long as she beat
the throw and didn't hook left into fair territory the base runner is safe. Even in a
dispute as long as she stays in foul territory or on the bag she is safe. First is the only
base that can be overrun without penalty. So the whole dispute of the coach being an
a$$ hat by yelling and the girl stepping off the bag, as long as she stepped off into foul
territory, was pointless and obnoxious. The ump was an idiot and it's unfortunate that
**** like this happens in little league but it does.
 

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She's safe. Period. She could run all the way to the outfield wall. She'd still be safe, as long as she didn't turn left in the base path. Since she was called out, buy her an ice cream. That always made things better when we lost.

Tom
 
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