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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have about 6000 miles on my Elise - lots of spirited driving! Today I decided to try some pedal adjustments.

It turns out that the brake pedal's foot pad can be adjusted side to side a bit. Stock it comes set to the greatest distance from the gas pedal. I moved it to the closet to the go-pedal position out of the three options. There is an easy to remove rivet on the bottom of the pedal pad that retains it to the brake lever. You can use a sheet metal screw to keep the pad in place for tryouts. Then you can fasten it with a nut + bolt (like the gas pedal) or rerivet. The top detail on the pedal pad's back side has some silicone rubber...apparently to ward off squeaks.

Here is a view of the bottom of the brake pedal pad.



Here is a view of the brake pedal pad position stock as well as shifted to the right towards the gas pedal. See how you can get them closer together.





Here is another view of the two pedals in which you can see how the gas pedal pad can be slightly shifted side to side. The pad is retained by the nut and bolt you can just see behind the surface of the gas pedal pad.



The height of the brake pedal during braking can be shifted a bit via the pushrod located up by the pedal pivots. The gas pedal height can be shifted a bit too, with some effort. By playing with the cable adjustment and high/low pedal stops. And by loosening it's pad mount some side to side adjustment is possible. My car is now easier to heal and toe. I'll have to drive it some more but my first impression is that the pedal feels nicer.

I think I will also check that the brake light comes on when it needs to given the changes I made. The brake light switch lives near the pivots for the brake lever. It removes by hand with a 1/4 turn. The sheet metal bracket it mounts to can be bent a bit to adjust when the brake lights come on.

HTH.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hmmm...maybe this is a pbase thing but the PICs aren't showing up for me...this may fix itself on it's own. In case others also are in the dark with those red X's, here is one of the PICs. This is the brake pedal pad that is normally attached to the brake pedal lever. A rivet aligns and retains the pad to the arm.
 

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Stan, I heard people complaining on other forums that pbase is not working for them now.

Now at 6400 miles. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
>>>Stan, I heard people complaining on other forums that pbase is not working for them now.<<<

Well I guess some of the Pbase folks are spending some quality time with their families...in the mean time I'll put the PICs up one at a time...
 

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stan, could heel/toe diificulty be made easier by drilling 3 new holes further away from face of brake pedal?..wouldnt this allow the brake pedal height to be raised abit???
 

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Stan said:
The height of the brake pedal during braking can be shifted a bit via the pushrod located up by the pedal pivots.
How do I do this. lateral placement of the pedals is fine for me but I want about a 1" height difference between the gas and brake. stock, they are pretty equal in height.

Stan said:
The gas pedal height can be shifted a bit too, with some effort. By playing with the cable adjustment and high/low pedal stops.
Maybe I should just adjust the gas pedal down an inch. Is the cable adjuster near the gas pedal or near the throttle on the engine?

Thanks
 

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Lotus Fury said:
6000??? Dude how do you get time to post????
not only this, but he averages more than 10 posts a day!!
 

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So, not that *everyone* cares about this, but if the pedal is riveted on there, can you legally drill the rivet and move it under SCCA Solo2 stock class rules? Seems like since the holes are there it should be a "comfort and convenience" type thing, but somehow that rivet seems like it may be an issue. If it had been a nut and bolt...

Oh, and for folks doing this mod I'd highly suggest a self locking nut to hold that thing on there. Heck, I'd make sure you're at least using normal or grade eight steel hardware (normal is probably fine, I just wouldn't trust aluminum or stainless in *this* application).

I'm pretty sure spacing the pedal up or down would *not* be legal under stock class rules unless the factory offers that option.


--Donnie
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
>>>So, not that *everyone* cares about this, but if the pedal is riveted on there, can you legally drill the rivet and move it under SCCA Solo2 stock class rules? Seems like since the holes are there it should be a "comfort and convenience" type thing, but somehow that rivet seems like it may be an issue. If it had been a nut and bolt... <<<

It's hard to say for sure...no other car has pedals like this one! It's very different. The brake pedal pad does come drilled with three positions, stock. And they are in useful spots, and serve no other purpose.

On the rivet thing...well changing the front sway bar is legal. And to do that you must remove many rivets. And replace them. So is that a problem too? I think that rivets are just unfamiliar to most folks. And most of us don't have the cheap tool for rivetting. Rivets are a cheaper way to fasten things than a nut and bolt.

Also on the rivet thing..note that the upper part of the pad which hooks over the brake lever is siliconed in place. Removeable *by hand* once the rivet is removed... They did NOT use the red high strength glue here which all other permanent assemblies in the car use. Which may tell us something.

If you look carefully at the PIC below you can see a bit of the head of the screw I used in lieu of a rivet to retain the pedal pad in it's rightmost position.

>>>Oh, and for folks doing this mod I'd highly suggest a self locking nut to hold that thing on there. Heck, I'd make sure you're at least using normal or grade eight steel hardware (normal is probably fine, I just wouldn't trust aluminum or stainless in *this* application). <<<

The pad is pretty stable as is, and it also gets siliconed at the top. You absolutely do NOT need high strength hardware here the loads are not taken by the fastener. The loads are all aluminum to aluminum pad to lever. Stock is a small, hollow aluminum rivet. If the pad did come off somehow anyway you still have full braking capability. You can get a better sense of the brake pedal pad setup by looking at the gas pedal - same hook on concept at the top, same abut the lever and go under it tightly on the bottom.

>>>I'm pretty sure spacing the pedal up or down would *not* be legal under stock class rules unless the factory offers that option.<<<

You can adjust the brake pedal height and still hit the stock suggested pedal box clearances in the present FSM. Looks like the same thing for the gas pedal. The wording of the adjustments in the FSM appears to allow some range of gas pedal height. You can see one of the potential adjustments at the bottom of the pedal itself - the threaded fastener with the rubber tip is the WOT limiter for the gas pedal. That is supposed to be set such that too much tension is not placed on the throttle cable. No actual length dimension is provided. Well if the cable is readjusted, this adjustment would need to be changed which would lead to a shift in the range of movement up or down. The up stop is supposed to be adjusted to suit by bending it. If you fiddle with the pedals a bit you'll see some of what I mean.
 

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Stan, I'm pretty sure this is NOT an SCCA issue. Changing pedals, yes, but not what is holding the pedal on. This is akin to using a phillips screw vs. a flathead screw. Nobody cares. Pedal heighth? Again, if there are adjustments available with the car when you get it, it should be legal. I don't know about drilling NEW holes.

Anyway, I'm actually a lot more interested in the feel of the pedals now. Is heel-toe easier? Do your feet get caught up in the pedals? Left foot braking more difficult? DO you see this as a good move, and what size are your shoes?

Oh, and I'm at 7,600 miles. :D Thankfully I'm putting on a lot fewer miles these days. I'd rather not be rebuilding my engine in four years.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
>>>Stan, I'm pretty sure this is NOT an SCCA issue. Changing pedals, yes, but not what is holding the pedal on. This is akin to using a phillips screw vs. a flathead screw. Nobody cares. Pedal heighth? Again, if there are adjustments available with the car when you get it, it should be legal. I don't know about drilling NEW holes. <<<

Jerry the SCCA rules can be pretty strange at times. For example if you tilt your rear view mirror way, way to the right so that you see only it's side aspect you can see more through that area of the windshield. As you know you don't use the RVM during autocross. But if you change your RVM to a smaller one as I have, you are now illegal even though the actual view through the windshield is the same aftermarket in normal viewing position versus stock in the above noted position. Supposedly this can create an advantage on some cars for some people since you may be able to see more of the course. Well at 5' 10" all it does is let me see more of the sky. Maybe it would help that giant whose PIC was taken in an Elise.

No new holes need to be drilled in the pedal pads, Lotus already did this. Remove fastener, slide pedal to desired position, refasten.

>>>Anyway, I'm actually a lot more interested in the feel of the pedals now. Is heel-toe easier? Do your feet get caught up in the pedals? Left foot braking more difficult? DO you see this as a good move, and what size are your shoes? <<<

Size 9 1/2 normal width shoes with normal (not narrow) soles can be used. And you could use the middle hole to get more space than I have but still less than stock.

The brake pedal feel seems to be better too. Part of this might be that the rubber bush with the 13 mm hex adjuster was set soft and the pedal height was set low so some gap or travel has to be taken up squishily at first. Try adjusting the tightness of your rubber bush high up in the lever - it's pretty squishy as delivered. It's under a minute to adjust once you find the bolt head.

The car heel and toes much more like my M3 now. The M has fantastic pedal positions and feel and I am very used to it.

This was my first pass at an adjustment...I'll likely fine tune it a time or two. But it's a nice step in the right direction already.

I think there would be fewer complaints about brake pedal softness if the pedal height and rubber bush were adjusted as noted.
 

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Stan said:
Jerry the SCCA rules can be pretty strange at times. For example if you tilt your rear view mirror way, way to the right so that you see only it's side aspect you can see more through that area of the windshield. As you know you don't use the RVM during autocross. But if you change your RVM to a smaller one as I have, you are now illegal even though the actual view through the windshield is the same aftermarket in normal viewing position versus stock in the above noted position. Supposedly this can create an advantage on some cars for some people since you may be able to see more of the course. Well at 5' 10" all it does is let me see more of the sky. Maybe it would help that giant whose PIC was taken in an Elise.
Whats so strange? The mirror isn't stock. The pedal is. Personally, I'm running ASP this year anyway tho. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
>>>Whats so strange? The mirror isn't stock. The pedal is. Personally, I'm running ASP this year anyway tho. <<<

It's strange because nonperformance related and common mods can throw ya out of stock and yet other significant mods are just fine. I'm not positive but it looks like changing the RVM may mean you need to run in the all-out prepared or mod classes. Those machines barely resemble cars any more and are not street legal by a long shot. I don't think anyone would protest such a thing as the RVM though unless you were doing well at a National event. In that case you just unscrew the aftermaret mirror and then snap the stock mirror back in place for no net change in car capability but good protection from the weanie protesters.
 

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It makes total sense to me. All rules exist witha few things in mind.

Slippery slope. If it is okay to do something just a little, where do you draw the line?

Serious competitors and cost. If the rules were changed to allow any mirror, a lot of people would put in mirrors that were 1 ounce and no bigger than your fingernail, which would be bad for the street.

Simplicitiy of rules. In order to not create a new rule about mirrors and min weight and size of mirrors, it is best to not create a rule at all. You can't pull things off the car to achieve ANY performance advtantage or weight savings. If you allowed it, then you get into the slippery slope and determining what is okay, and what is not. Much easier to just require the car be stock.


That way I can leave my mirror alone and not worry I am losing some competitive advantage, regardless how small.
 

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I actually understand the mirror thing, and the SCCA's refusal to get sucked in to creating an IRS-type code of rules. What I struggle with is if this car is in "stock" class, why is it okay to change springs, shocks, and front sway bars? Those are significant changes and original replacement equipment is available. Bizarre.

Stan, I don't have anything to compare to on the pedal thing. I may have to try to adjust just to see if I like it better or not. I like it a lot as is, but I'm all for anything within the rules for SS that will improve my times. I'm not sure how adjusting the pedals will do that. I'm not saying they won't, just not sure how.

How did you get the rivits out? They look to be in a tough to reach spot.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
>>>Serious competitors and cost. If the rules were changed to allow any mirror, a lot of people would put in mirrors that were 1 ounce and no bigger than your fingernail, which would be bad for the street. That way I can leave my mirror alone and not worry I am losing some competitive advantage, regardless how small.<<<

True. I tend to rag on the SCCA too much at times... In any event the postage stamp mirrors would not be safe or street legal...but the one I am using are safe / legal. No weight savings either. They just look nicer, match the other alloy trim, and are more fun.
 
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