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Steve,

Its his right to do whatever he wants with his elise...including selling it for market value.

Don't get pissed off at others because you droped your deposit.

If I needed to drop my deposit, I cant say that I wouldnt think of selling it for market value either. That's the beauty of this country.
 

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MW,

For the record, I withdrew my deposit TO PREVENT this ****. The dealership I was at started playing games, so I went to one that did right by the customers. In doing so, I have decreased the demand at the original dealership and decreased its ability (even if fractionally) to treat customers this way.

Incidentally, what is LEGALLY RIGHT has nothing to do with what is ETHICALLY RIGHT (if you agree that there is such a thing). In terms of ethics, NO, he is NOT RIGHT for doing what he's doing. He's driving the price up on our cars to put money in his pocket.

As you can tell, I feel very strongly about this. Read the article on my site about it if you care to read my opinion in further detail.

Steve
 

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transio said:
MW,

He's driving the price up on our cars to put money in his pocket.

Please tell me how this is a bad thing?

Those of us, like I, who have deposits and deals with their dealership for MSRP are not being hurt by a few gentlemen selling their cars or slots at a profit. If nothing else, it drives up the value on the car I will soon buy, which to me is a good thing.

For once in my life, I will own a car that isnt a money pit. A car that eventually I will be able to sell without losing too much equity. A car that will have high enough demand that my used car will still have a value.

So, yes, I'm glad that we live in a free market society.
 

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Modern Wedgie said:
Please tell me how this is a bad thing?
So, yes, I'm glad that we live in a free market society.
MW, the problem it that when the dealer sees people doing this sort of thing they say to them selves "why shouldn't we do that, we are the dealers". Then they find ways and reasons to justify doing it to all of us. If you have a written MSRP commitment they have two options one, tell you they have a dealer prep fee of $5K or what ever and you are buying the car at MSRP + prep fee or they will not call you when your number comes up and sell it to someone else that will pay the fee.

I think that is the problem in a nutshell...

I am not sure living in a free market society gives people the right to sell spots in line.




Patrick
2005 Elise
 

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transio said:
Incidentally, what is LEGALLY RIGHT has nothing to do with what is ETHICALLY RIGHT (if you agree that there is such a thing). In terms of ethics, NO, he is NOT RIGHT for doing what he's doing. He's driving the price up on our cars to put money in his pocket.

Steve
1. Stop being so selfish
2. Welcome to capitalism. If you don't like the system, please join the line on the left.
3. If he sells for 10k over, that' a good thing, as the value of my Elise that I purchase will hold for a longer period of time.
 

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Good luck with that.

Actually, no.... I hope you total it on your way home from the dealership.... into your house, burning it down, and killing your favorite fish.

What you don't realize by your greedy capitalist attitude is that you're destroying the market for those of us who actually want to own the car. You (and similarly minded dealers) are the reason I withdrew my deposit and dropped back 6 months in line.

I really believe that what goes around comes around, though. I'm gonna laugh when your dealership installs a $10k "aftermarket package" consisting of floor mats and pin-stripes. You really deserve that.
Transio, I quoted your post from the other board....

Why in the hell would post something wishing injury/death on a person for simply selling a car?
 

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Not to change the subject...but it does need some levity:)

Genjuro, why is your Elise being swallowed up by a tidal wave or is it a tsunami?


Patrick
2005 Elise
 

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Genjuro said:
Transio, I quoted your post from the other board....

Why in the hell would post something wishing injury/death on a person for simply selling a car?
I think technically he wished injury to the guys Elise and death to his fish:)

Patrick
2005 Elise
 

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Transio-
Just as you have the right to move your deposit, the buyer has the right to sell his car for whatever price a buyer is willing to pay. You can't tell me that when I sell a car of mine for more than "Blue Book" because I find a buying willing to pay more, that I am somehow doing something wrong. The only difference is timing. Get over it.
 

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Patricko said:
Not to change the subject...but it does need some levity:)

Genjuro, why is your Elise being swallowed up by a tidal wave or is it a tsunami?


Patrick
2005 Elise
The painting is by a man named Hokusai Katsushika. He lived between 1760-1849. The painting is called Mt. Fuji Off Kanagawa or The Great Wave Off Kanagawa.

Larger Image

The Elise is facing its fear that is represented by the wave. The wave being the unknown future that is the US market. In the background you can see Mt. Fuji. Much like the United Kingdom stands in the background as our Elises make their way to the United Sates by boat... facing much peril that will be served by the trip across the pond.
 

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azstar said:
Transio-
Just as you have the right to move your deposit, the buyer has the right to sell his car for whatever price a buyer is willing to pay. You can't tell me that when I sell a car of mine for more than "Blue Book" because I find a buying willing to pay more, that I am somehow doing something wrong. The only difference is timing. Get over it.
I we all have a right to sell what we OWN for whatever we want. I don't have a problem with someone selling the car. I do have a problem with someone trying to sell a spot in line...

Patrick
2005 Elise
 

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Patricko said:
I think technically he wished injury to the guys Elise and death to his fish:)

Patrick
2005 Elise

One would assume that if you crash your car into your house and it burns down your house, that the likelyhood of death and serious injury would be high.

Also, the funny thing about that is... if he did crash it, and it burnt up, then the VALUE of the Elise would go up, as there is one less vehicle that has the potential to be sold.
 

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Operative word here, he's TRYING to sell at 10k over msrp.

More power to him if someone's stupid enough to pay 10k over list.
Chris
 

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I can understand both points. Please be aware that the dealers already know the car is worth more than they are selling it for. They know this because the entire first years supply is already spoken for. I would think this is a red flag for most.

If anyone here thinks the price of the Elise will stay where it is I think you are in for a surprise. I read somewhere here that profits have dropped $7k per car due to the current state of the dollar. So at minimum expect an increase to offset the money they will not make due to the poor exchange rate. Then factor in the enormously successful launch of the car and I think they may increase prices further still. Lotus and their dealers will sell for as much as they can and if Lotus knows anything about the US market they will add improvements as the car ages like larger engine or more power (ala Porsche).

I firmly believe this first years run will be the cheapest the cars get in the USA. After this years expect a hefty price increase. Of course there will be a secondhand market by then, but don’t expect any bargains as long as the car remains popular. Most people won’t sell cheap if they know the cars are going for top dollar new. They will instead try to get as much as they can.

I remember the Morgan having a seven year waiting list. Due to the long wait people regularly sold used examples for more than the new. I don’t know if that would be the case with the Liz, I doubt it, but resale should remain good for some time.


I think in a way the Elise is like any other investment (granted we invest in a car for different reasons). When people are looking to by a stock they want to get in when it’s cheap, then when they’re ready to sell they want to get top dollar for it. I know in a few years when I sell my Liz I will hope I get top dollar too.
 

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Genjuro said:
The painting is by a man named Hokusai Katsushika. He lived between 1760-1849. The paiting is called Mt. Fuji Off Kanagawa or The Great Wave Off Kanagawa.
So are you saying that Lotus stole the design for the S2 Elise from Mr. Miyagi:)
 

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Patricko said:
So are you saying that Lotus stole the design for the S2 Elise from Mr. Miyagi:)
Perhaps.... I'd have to perform some more research. :p

So if Miyagi would simply rub his hands together and place them on the Elise that is going to have the 10k markup and magically make $10k appear, then the guy would have his 10k, he could sell it at MSRP, the Elise wouldn't have to burn a blaze of fishy glory, and everyone would be happy!

:D :D :D
 
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