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Ok, when I purchased my miata I got an R package, which came with upgraded Bilstien shocks, and heavier sways. I immediately pulled them off and put on coilovers/koni's which kind of defeated the point of getting the R package.


Do you think the Lotus package will be worth the $3500? Or, will it be kind of like the upgraded "R" package suspension on the miatas in which case I would prefer to wait on a coilover/koni package for the elise which I assume will be available.

Do you think the non sport suspension ( stock elise) will be really average?


Ideas?
 

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HI Jenn,
If the US Elise suspension is close to the 111S, that's all I need. I think for day-to-day use the sport suspension, or whatever they end up calling it will make the car uncomfortable. I found the Sport 190 suspension to be waaaaaaaaaay to firm for standard road surfaces, I assume the sport suspension will be similar to that.
Chris
 

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Jenn, I thought the Sports Suspension was a $2000 option. No?

It depends on what is included. I have been known to replace the struts pretty quickly with some aftermarket adjustable ones. But if the springs are different, and different rims, it might be worth it.

The test car I drove had a very firm suspension, and I am used to racecar suspensions on the street. Will the USA car have a softer suspension as standard?
 

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Nay

I personally have never understood the concept of paying extra for a sports suspension on a sports car. Porsche does this too and it seems a bit odd (although Porsche only charges $692 for the “special chassis rigidly tuned” on a Boxster). The implication to me is that the standard suspension is sub-standard and if you want a real sports car you have to pay extra for it otherwise you have just bought a real sporty Kia.

If the base price on the US Elise is around $38.5 (as some have suggested), I would not personally pay an extra 10% for the sports suspension, an extra $500 maybe. I mean, just how much more does it cost to swap in stiffer springs, thicker anti-roll bars, and different shocks especially when you are doing a few thousand a year. $3,500 just sounds like gouging to me. Even $2,000 sounds like a lot of money, especially if Porsche can do it for $700.

I have driven a base Elise I and it was the best handling car I have ever driven. My fear is that the sports suspension would be so stiff that the ride would be unbearable on the street although great at the track.

If Lotus nickels and dimes us enough to get a good car a Porsche Boxster will become a real alternative for a lot of folks, especially those who have previously owned a British car and are concerned about build quality (the Boxster did pretty well in the latest JD Power survey). I realize that many will point out that the Elise and Boxster are different cars, and I concede this point, it’s just that if a properly equipped Elise costs $45,000, well, that’s a lot of money for this car.
 

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Actually, I believe the Lotus sports suspension option is rumored to include different wheels as well, depending on the wheels $2000 would be cheap.

I just can't see get the option, my car will be a daily driver, so assuming the US car suspension is similar to the 111S cars making the rounds of the dealers, it's more than adequate for me
Chris
 

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Thought the price was more like $2k, $1.5k for the hardtop. Hard to say what Lotus will do for this market. Might soften the std suspension a bit with the upgrade more livable then the Sport190. From what little I've heard the sport package has different wheels and maybe tire sizes. My guess is Lotus std setup is slightly softer then what we've seen in the S2111S demo cars, with the sport a bit stiffer. Really wouldn't think stock would be crappy, might be a better balance for a "everyday" street car.

This and the hardtop are the only real options, sure in terms of what it cost it's got good margins. Then again how many of the buyers would be happy to pay the extra $500-$1000 if the sport suspension was std and have to live with the stiffer ride. It gives us the flexablity to decide what we want to live with.
 

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Since we don't know (A) how much the suspension package will cost, or (B) what it will comprise, or even (C) that an option will be offered, I don't think this is a valid question.

The best answer I can give is that if the suspension package costs $3500 and is the equivalent of the Miata suspension package, it will not be worth it.
 

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I believe my dealer said the sport suspension would be $2.5K and include wheels and suspension changes. He also thought it would be primarily for track use and that the stock suspension would be adequate for occasional track use (He has an Exige).

I drove the 111S and it's handling was better than my M3 and it was certainly stiff. In New England as a fun car for the street, I will likely go with stock, but if you live where the roads are smooth and you want extreme, hey its your kidneys. Of course this is all dependent on the US car having a suspension set up similar to what I drove.
 

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My Elise will experience most of its miles on public roads. Even when I take it on the track, my purpose will not be competition. Thus, it's not a matter of having the absolute fastest setup out there, but rather one that I'm familiar with and can handle. So, there's really no point in getting the sport suspension, when the stock suspension is already so tight and responsive (assuming it's comparable to the 111s). I would only consider the sport suspension if the car were to be used for competitive racing only.
 

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If the sport suspension is intended primarily for racing (unknown at this point) then they could clarify things by calling it the "track" suspension and the standard one the "street" suspension. In addition to being more clear and preventing customer dissapointment at having chosen the wrong one, it would get rid of the implication that the standard suspension isn't sports car worthy. On the other hand, if the sport suspension is just a more aggressive street setup that'll still be OK over broken pavement...well it would be good to know before choosing!
 

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Re: Nay

eliseNW said:
I personally have never understood the concept of paying extra for a sports suspension on a sports car. Porsche does this too and it seems a bit odd (although Porsche only charges $692 for the “special chassis rigidly tuned” on a Boxster). The implication to me is that the standard suspension is sub-standard and if you want a real sports car you have to pay extra for it otherwise you have just bought a real sporty Kia.

If the base price on the US Elise is around $38.5 (as some have suggested), I would not personally pay an extra 10% for the sports suspension, an extra $500 maybe. I mean, just how much more does it cost to swap in stiffer springs, thicker anti-roll bars, and different shocks especially when you are doing a few thousand a year. $3,500 just sounds like gouging to me. Even $2,000 sounds like a lot of money, especially if Porsche can do it for $700.

I have driven a base Elise I and it was the best handling car I have ever driven. My fear is that the sports suspension would be so stiff that the ride would be unbearable on the street although great at the track.

If Lotus nickels and dimes us enough to get a good car a Porsche Boxster will become a real alternative for a lot of folks, especially those who have previously owned a British car and are concerned about build quality (the Boxster did pretty well in the latest JD Power survey). I realize that many will point out that the Elise and Boxster are different cars, and I concede this point, it’s just that if a properly equipped Elise costs $45,000, well, that’s a lot of money for this car.
Er. try "road oriented" normal suspension and "track oriented" sprots suspension. It might help explain where they are coming from.

sports suspension would be bad in combination with road tyres, and sporty tyres on the road suspsnsion would also be bad.

Horses for courses; you should be happy you have the option at all.

Craigy
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You're all probably correct on pricing Im sure, I posted late last night was goofy from lack of sleep ( at least thats what I'll blame it on).

I dont know where I came up with $3500...maybe I was thinking $2000 for suspension and $1500 for hardtop and Ive been drooling so long those figures are superimposed in my brain and just blurted out in my post.

With any regard, you see my point? Not saying stock suspension will be "crappy" which is a term I use for everything average....but wondering if I'll want to go with a coilover/koni type set up later. I know nothing about the Lotus Sport Suspension, it may be heavenly which is why I ask.

From what Ive garnered so far, I may end up keeping their stock suspension offering and trying it out!
 

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Re: Nay

eliseNW said:
[...]
Even $2,000 sounds like a lot of money, especially if Porsche can do it for $700.
Tack on another $1,200-$4,400 for a Porsche wheel/tire upgrade.

If Lotus nickels and dimes us enough to get a good car a Porsche Boxster will become a real alternative for a lot of folks
[...]
it’s just that if a properly equipped Elise costs $45,000, well, that’s a lot of money for this car.
If you are happy with the "base" Elise, then it's only $38.5k for a "properly" equipped Elise.

Consider that $45k won't even be enough for a slower, zero-option Boxster, and that a $55k+ Boxster S is probably a better comparison. If you want to talk about nickel-and-diming, have you ever optioned out a Boxster? You can easily exceed $70k.

I'd bet the option we'd be offered is what's already available from the 135R (Suspension & "Wheels & Tyres" sections), "the ultimate road and track Elise," to appease the anti-understeer and track folks. Any people from the UK want to comment on the stiffer 135R's adjustable Bilstein coilover setup?
 

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The Elise is such a step up to a Boxster, it is like comparing the Boxster to a Cayenne.
As Craigy said, if you want a civilised ride don't upgrade to the sports suspension.
Me, on the other hand, well I have driven in an S1 RHD Sport 190 with race tyres and I think the ride was more compliant on public roads than my (modified)Boxster is now. Niether of them are bone jarring in my opinion. I like a firm ride and enjoy the precision it gives at the limit (at the track). My Boxster is also my daily driver. IIRC the sports package included 2way dampers on the shocks. I have read some PCA articles showing that these shocks make an immense amount of difference at the track, so I *REALLY* want the sports package :D
 

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I see a lot of comparisons to a Boxster, and don't get me wrong, I don't want one. if I did, I would have one.

So I'm curious, how many of you have actually driven both a Boxster and an Elise?

And regarding optioning a Boxster to $70k, I think you can option one to about $110k, which is silly of course.
 

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I've driven both. Apples and oranges.

The Elise is a much more focused sports car. It feels like a go-cart. The Boxster is much more civilized. You could drive a Boxster across the country in comfort. The Elise will leave you more battered. Drive the two back to back and the Boxster will feel like a Cadillac.

Since each of us have different uses for our cars, it is nice to have the choice between different suspensions. Of course I have not seen any official announcement confirming the availability of the LSS in the Fed car.

With or without LSS, the Elise is going to be a blast. Especially if you order a Chrome Orange one. :D

I give kudos to Porsche for offering such a broad options list. How many cars can be spec'ed in such a bespoke manner? Very few. Porsche allows customers to order cars to their very specific desires. I think that is cool.
 

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Suspension options

The rumor that I heard was that both suspensions were terrific- but for different things.

The first thing you need to get used to is that the "upgrade" suspension is NOT a sport suspension, but a TRACK SUSPENSION and a great one at that.

Figure there is a 90/10 rule in effect here. If you plan to drive your Elise on a track 90% of the time and 10% (or less) on the street they you will LOVE the track setup. Likewise if you will drive your Elise on the track less than 10% (or unless you live in a world of perfect roads, or you're a massochist) the you want the "normal" suspension. The normal suspension already has giant killer capabilities built in, just play with a Viper or 'vette at a tight track sometime.
 

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Suspension options

The rumor that I heard was that both suspensions were terrific- but for different things.

The first thing you need to get used to is that the "upgrade" suspension is NOT a sport suspension, but a TRACK SUSPENSION and a great one at that.

Figure there is a 90/10 rule in effect here. If you plan to drive your Elise on a track 90% of the time and 10% (or less) on the street they you will LOVE the track setup. Likewise if you will drive your Elise on the track less than 10% (or unless you live in a world of perfect roads, or you're a massochist) the you want the "normal" suspension. The normal suspension already has giant killer capabilities built in, just play with a Viper or 'vette at a tight track sometime.
 

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Do you think the non sport suspension ( stock elise) will be really average?
--suspension! Lotus! Average!
Jenn! we have never been about 'average' suspension or handling...we wrote the book on it
:) so when you coming down!?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
LOL, I knew I'd get in trouble for that one. hehe. I know Lotus average is other brand top of the line!, By average I think I was meaning more like, will they offer a "cushier" suspension for us American folks and make the sport a true race suspension. My cars all ride like a 2X4 with wheels strapped on, so Im used to stiff...Im a greedy little fecker and I want the best suspension I can get!!

;)

I may be down soon, in fact I nearly popped in on you a few weeks ago. My dad is an art dealer and doing some sort of show down there soon....in fact we were just discussing that last night about running down there to say hello to everyone! I bet you're excited about the new arrival but busy as heck. I cant wait to stop in!


J
 
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