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Discussion Starter #1
Where to start.

I recently purchased a "demo" car from EuroClassics in Richmond, VA and what a terrible expierence its turned out to be.

The cars details.
2007 Lotus Exige S
1200 miles.

Now i was very concerned buying a so called demo car. But the salesman assured me not to fear. I explained i've never bought a demo before and quite frankly im a little stand offish of doing so. Im worried that the car has been beaten to death....He stopped me right there and said NO NO NO. "All of our test drives are short 5-10 mile MONITORED trips. Most of our customers are mature older men and we ride along with ALL of our test drives". This was also not the only time i brung up the subject of being worried about buying a DEMO. He once again assured me the car has been FULLY SERVICED. Break in period and all. "We really baby our demo cars Because we know of course its going to be a customers car eventually" . I ended up trusting my salesman and went ahead with the deal.

We arranged a pick up date and upon arrival i was assured the car had a FULL inspection and was ready for delivery.
Well they were wrong.

Basically as soon as i pulled it off the lot i noticed the car making a metal to metal noise every time i depressed the clutch. Also noticed the car making a steering rack popping noise over slow bumps on the way home.
When i got home i examined the clutch problem, because it was getting rather annoying. Upon further examination i had noticed the rubber padding had been massacred from severe wear and tear. (ive got pictures i will be posting when i get home) This is something obviously if the car had, had a full inspection they would have certainly noticed this.

Of course these arent huge deals. And i was willing to let these things go.


Well a few weeks later i get the car up jack stands to perform a couple modifications. I take out the inner wheel plastics, and what falls out??
Rolled up pieces of RACE RUBBER!!!!!!!
Okay now im upset. That guy told me this car had been babied.

I immediately gathered the pieces up and threw them on my workbench for future use. (Ive also got pictures of this i will be adding once i get home)

And for my biggest problem. I pulled the rear panel and low and behold the car has been leaking oil. At this point in time i have pretty much just drove the car home. Now given it is 9 hr trip but this oil spot wasnt fresh. It looks like a 10 yr old engine underneath there. Something else a pre-Inspection before delivery would have surely caught.

So the next day i hopped on the CPU and emailed my salesman.

Pieces of my email to EUROCLASSICS....

But anyhow, install required the front fender wells to be removed. Now while doing this i discovered something very discouraging. There were a few pieces of rubber shrouds that fell from the crevices of the Fender liner. Ive been in racing for years and know what rolled up sheddings from a racing slick look like. These are definitely them IMO. Ive kept them and can and will take pics.

I asked all of these questions before i bought the car. Concerning the test drives and history of the mileage on the vehicle. I was lead to believe the car i was buying was a gentled DEMO car. With just some test drives on the miles. I wasnt aware i was buying a previous TRACK demo car.

I was just getting ready to find time to put together my Great expierence i had from Euroclassics and post it on Lotustalk.com.

Unfortunately now... Im having second thoughts.

-jeff
And my response apparently bypassed the salesman and went straight to the manager.

This a email from the salesmanager to his salesman

Stephen,

Please pass on my apologies to your customer.

I am sorry that he feels that he was mislead in some fashion about
the car's history.

The fact is the car was a demo, not a "track" demo.

We do two track events a year, and we take a Lotus as well as a Porsche or two
to the event. This is what we have a demo for.

Yes the car was on the track on track day. (The 5 point shoulder harness was an indication
of this).


The car was also purchased at a demonstrator price, well below the manufacturers suggested retail price.

Only you and he know if the exact question " was this car on a racetrack" ever posed.
I know you well enough that you're one of the most ethical young men I have had the pleasure
of working with and would never mislead anyone around the absolute truth. And if there was a question if you didn't know the answer and you would have came to me.

Again, Euroclassics Porsche is known for hosting these track events, photos are pictured on
our websites as well as on blogs, etc. It certainly is nothing we are trying to hide.

None the less, if your customer is unhappy, please let him know that we are more than willing to take the car back on trade for something he may be more comfortable with and I will give this my personal attention.


Michael Falcone
General Sales Manager
Euroclassics Porsche
Okay i bolded specific parts that particulary ticked me off.

-The 5-point harness thing is an absolute lie. I asked questions about the modifications made on the car. They told me "Visual upgrades to help advertise to customers the personality of the car"

-Whats your point. So its now the customers responsibility to research your site and Dealership history to make sure their specific car has been to the track. I also visited their site right after this email and saw nothing that looked like corporate track event pictures.

-Oh wow... thanks for the trade in offer. Of course he is willing to take in the depreciated beat up track demo car and rape me on a new 08 240 on the top end.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay now the next conversation was over the phone directly to the manager. Because my response to that email wasnt being answered in a timely manner, i decided to give them a ring. I got ahold of the manager and we discussed the situation. He reiterated admitting that car has been to the track. But he knows his salesman and he's sure he must have told you this. BLAH BLAH. I told him that i was dissapointed in how this situation is panning out. And now i basically can't even drive this car because of the leaking oil problem. I told him i know this isnt your problem or responsibility but i am very busy businessman. Its very difficult for me to get off work to make a Service run up to FAVC 4 hr drive. And MAG 2-1/2hr drive has a terrible dealership reputation. So long conversation short....
I basically told him look... I will be happy if you can somehow help me out with trasportation to FAVC (via FAVC tow service to pick up my car) If you can help me out in anyway by taking care of full or part of the transportation bill i will consider this situation NULL. The manager said he would see what he can do and get back to me immediately. The urgence was from i told him i had a track day i was signed up for attending in the next couple weeks. So i needed to get this oil problem fixed quickly.


Well. . . . .

Days went by and no reply via email or phone from the manager.

So i emailed them. This was 4/4/08

I had talked to your manager on the phone. We discussed a few things. And came toa conclusion that he was going to look into a way you could possibly help me out with Transportation of the vehicle for Warranty work.

That was i believe tuesday.

Just wondering if there was an update. If your're unable to help. I will need to start making arrangements myself.

-jeff
Waited again this time until 4/9/08

Hi steve

Is your manager or yourself ever going to get back to me. Or are we playing the lets just ignore him game and hope he goes away.

Thanks for your time,

-jeff
Then finally today 4/20/08 i get this HATEFUL email back from the manager. This response is totally out of line imo. You can decide for yourself.

Jeff,

I have reflected on your emails and our phone conversation and after careful
consideration, you are welcome to bring the car back to my service dept and
we will investigate the "oil leak" and determine what, if any the problem is, as well as
address any other concerns you may have.
I will gladly cover your gas expense.

This in not a "game", nor is any part of our business considered such as you mention in
the forwarded email, below.

On two occasions, you have mentioned "Lotus Talk"
The last time, during a phone conversation with me, you said that if we took part
in some transportation expense to get your car to a dealer you are comfortable with
that you would "still" give us a favorable blurb on "Lotus Talk"

Frankly, the first time you mentioned it, I brushed it off, as your accusations
were of more consequence. But mentioning it a second time and insinuating that if I didn't aid you in some fashion with transportation,
(to a dealer you are going to anyway for a track inspection) you would post a derogatory blurb about our dealership is preposterous and taking advantage of the forum and the outlet for expression, for personal gain. Using the threat of free speech doesn't carry much weight with me.

Please let me know personally, if and when you plan a visit to the service dept., so I can accommodate you as quickly as I possibly can.

Respectfully,

Michael Falcone
General Sales Manager
Euroclassics Lotus
-of course im not driving the car 9hours to your dealership. Its got an OIL leak.

-As for the lotustalk. LotusTalk is the only place for lotus owners and potential owners to go for reviews on these dealerships. So i figured this would be a great place to reflect on a good expierence i had with them. When i initially left their dealership i told the salesman "Hey be on a lookout i will definitely be posting this GREAT expierence on lotustalk to help you guys out." Well he had seemed excited about it when it was going to be a good review.

As of now. Yes i did mention it on the phone. Why lie. Of course if he doesnt help me out im going to let the people know about this dealership and how they OPENLY LIE to their customers about their cars histories. I feel it would be my duty.

These guys are completely out of line.


Im in the car business myself. I manage a used car dealership. S take this into consideration....

If you were a salesman and you have been sitting on a demo car for months on end because NOBODY wants to buy it. Right after you tell them yes it has been to the track they lose all interest in the vehicle. Now if this salesman really didnt know. He should have asked. And IF he did ask about the history of the car and found out. Boy would it be tough for that salesman to lose this guy that he has SERIOUSLY interested on this car by telling them "hey you know i just found out this car has been tracked."

All of the above situations are still wrong. There is no excuse for me not being well aware that their demo car was their track vehicle.

Plain and simple this dealership straight lied to me about the cars history. And thats BS> And then to respond to a customer like that last email just shows the true character of that dealership.

I strongly recommend everybody who is in the area or deciding on a dealership to use to steer away from EUROCLASSICS.
 

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Where to start?.......

Why are you buying a "Demo" car?

What did you expect the dealer to say about the vehicle. You say that you are in the used car business so you should know what to expect.

Sometimes you can find bargains but why roll the dice on a "Demo" car such as a Lotus?

I don't know what savings you got from the purchase but looks like your going to be paying it all back in the end.

1. Did you get the ECU dump?
2. Did you go alone to buy the car? That is a BIG mistake. Sometimes you can get caught up in the moment, lose your good judgement and patience.... you need to have a friend who has nothing to gain be there to keep you in check and to keep you from making impulsive decisions and to help screen out the BS.

Sorry to hear about your story, best of luck and hope you work it out.
 

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I have had nothing but good experiences with Euroclassics and I find it surprising the sales person misled you. I have been to four Euroclassics track events and there has been at least one demo Lotus at each event. I drove one of their demo cars at one track event. Last October they brought an Aspen White Exige S to VIR. I can't say how many of those 1200 miles were on the track, but I was present for one track day with that car. The car was trailered down to the track from Richmond and driven most of the day on the track. When I was at the dealership a month ago, the car was still on the lot. I'm pretty sure it was the car you bought.

At the event last October, the Aspen White Exige S was driven by the dealership owner in most of the sessions. It had been previously broken in at the time and it was driven hard at the track day. It also had at least one "off" although there appeared to be no damage other than some serious grass and dirt on the car.

As for the claim that they monitored demo drives, I took two demo drives in one of their cars before I bought from them. (I am "older" but some would question the "mature" part.) In both cases, the sales person tossed me the keys and gave me a suggested route. While I was careful of the car, no one can say what others may have done when they took their solo test drives.

I have not had any dealings with your sales person nor have I even met the general sales manager, but I have only positive things to say about the sales person I dealt with. He has now left the dealership however. I have also had very positive dealings with the owner, Mark Cooke.

I ordered my car and when it came in, it had the wrong interior. The sales person and the owner worked with Lotus to make everything right. As a result I was a happy customer. Based on my experience with them, I am surprised at the way you were misled during the sales process. I would assume the sales person was trying to make a sale at the expense of complete honesty and is now being backed up by the manager. Given the amount of turnover in their sales force in the time I've been going there it could also be that the particular person you dealt with is new and may not be aware of the history of that car.

Obviously my positive experiences with Euroclassics don't help you, nor do they diminish the fact that the car was misrepresented to you in an effort to make a sale. I wish you luck in getting a satisfactory outcome. Honesty and integrity are most important in any organization that deals with the public. It's very disappointing to me to hear that they were missing in your dealings with Euroclassics.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Where to start?.......

Why are you buying a "Demo" car?

What did you expect the dealer to say about the vehicle. You say that you are in the used car business so you should know what to expect.

1. Did you get the ECU dump?
2. Did you go alone to buy the car? That is a BIG mistake. Sometimes you can get caught up in the moment, lose your good judgement and patience.... you need to have a friend who has nothing to gain be there to keep you in check and to keep you from making impulsive decisions and to help screen out the BS.

Sorry to hear about your story, best of luck and hope you work it out.
Well thanks for the reply. And if the dealership was honest I didn't see a problem with buying a demo. Honestly I still don't. These cars were built for the track. But in this particular case I screwed up. This wasn't an impulse buy. I had a budget and searched for months.
 

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I've been pretty harsh on the sales dept of my local dealership. But when I was looking at their demo car they were perfectly straight up about the fact that it has been their track demo car. I chose not to buy from them in the end because of their high prices. I've dealt with their service department since then though and they've been fantastic.

In the end, it's not clear that a Porsche dealership cares what people on a lotus forum think (unless it's also the local lotus dealership, that wasn't clear). I think you got taken because they knew you weren't coming back in. You might even want to contact the BBB as (assuming your story is accurate) they deliberately lied to you. It's not been my observation that salespeople are the most ethical of people.

best of luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have had nothing but good experiences with Euroclassics and I find it surprising the sales person misled you. I have been to four Euroclassics track events and there has been at least one demo Lotus at each event. I drove one of their demo cars at one track event. Last October they brought an Aspen White Exige S to VIR. I can't say how many of those 1200 miles were on the track, but I was present for one track day with that car. The car was trailered down to the track from Richmond and driven most of the day on the track. When I was at the dealership a month ago, the car was still on the lot. I'm pretty sure it was the car you bought.



As for the claim that they monitored demo drives, I took two demo drives in one of their cars before I bought from them. (I am "older" but some would question the "mature" part. Based on my experience with them, I am surprised at the way you were misled during the sales process. I would assume the sales person was trying to make a sale at the expense of complete honesty and is now being backed up by the manager. Given the amount of turnover in their sales force in the time I've been going there it could also be that the particular person you dealt with is new and may not be aware of the history of that care sale. I wish you luck in getting a satisfactory outcome. Honesty and integrity are most important in any organization that deals with the public. It's very disappointing to me to hear that they were missing in your dealings with Euroclassics.
I'm happy you had a better expirence than myself.
However the way they've conducted themselves this past month is absolutely ridiculous. This random email I got today was the first time I've heard anything from them in over 3 weeks.

Also from your story I can now say they also lied to me about their test drive policy.
However just to let everyone know my business is done with euroclassics. That last email from the manager was the straw that broke the camels back. My reply to that email was simply"my business is now done with euroclassics thank you". Just completely out of line. I'm only here to share my story.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
There is a difference between 'puffery' and flat out lies that are meant to decieve you.

Contact a lawyer.
its all word of mouth. And honestly it wouldn't have been a big deal if he would have returned my inquiries in a timely manner and simply help me out in transporting the car for service.


I love how the manager accuses me of threatening him with a review on lotustalk. I never once said if you don't help I'm going light you up on lotustalk, like he is referring on the email. I simply said if he helps I will still put up a good expirence for your dealership. Take that however you want.
 

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Very sorry to hear about this. Being a member of the Aspen White Exige S Mafia myself makes me all the more sympathetic. I hope things are resolved to your satisfaction, and once again you're happy to be member of AWESM!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I've been pretty harsh on the sales dept of my local dealership. But when I was looking at their demo car they were perfectly straight up about the fact that it has been their track demo car.
best of luck!
Sorry for the multiple posts my iPod doesn't quote well.

But exactly this information SHOULD have been disclosed to me openly with details when I expressed concerns more than once.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Very sorry to hear about this. Being a member of the Aspen White Exige S Mafia myself makes me all the more sympathetic. I hope things are resolved to your satisfaction, and once again you're happy to be member of AWESM!
I'm extremely happy to be a member of the aw mafia!:lol:
 

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You might find pictures of your car starting around post #104...and in the videos...
 

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My '07 Exige S had what is probably the same oil leak. I believe it is a common issue, and an easy fix. As long as the car has oil in it, you can drive it without worry. It does make a mess, but the car is used, and that's what happens.

Separating out your anger at the situation, I think in the end if you just get the oil leak fixed (warranty item) then the rest is just mental. So the car was on track a bit. They are tough cars, and the most that you would get would be tire wear (which you was not hidden from you when you bought the car). It is not as if you have a completely worthless vehicle. My advice is to get it fixed, clean it up and drive. MUCH better than wringing your hands and stewing about how you didn't get a "good deal". Just forget it and drive!
 

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Discussion Starter #18

Thanks for sharing the link. That definitely looks like her. Of course any AW Exige S would look like her. :lol:


I not upset and think i have gotten a junk car. Im just upset with the dealership. The car im happy with. Take it to the dealer for service and im sure it comes back great again. So im not too worried about the car.

Just here to express my concern with EuroClassics and how they treat their customers.
 

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FWIW - I bought their 2006 AW Elise demo w/ 2,700 or so miles on it. It now has 15,000 + miles on it, about 27 track days at VIR and RIR. I'm on my 4th set of rear tires, about to install my 3rd set of brakes and the car runs like a top.

They were up front about my demo being on the track, without my asking. As it turns out it was a bit of the town ho, as it seems everyone had had a ride.rotfl. (I learned more of it's history after the purchase.) Had I known better, about the only thing I would have done differently is insisted on a bigger discount.

Your car didn't sit around because they couldn't sell it. Just like my car, your's was Mark Cooke's demo car and he put most of the miles on it. I believe most dealers give cars to their salesmen for personal use. Your's was used by the owner. Aside from one track event, it was gently driven.

It's a great car, enjoy it.
 
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