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Discussion Starter #1
I was reading an issue of Auto Car magazine(July 27/04) when I came across a very interesting issue about finding Britains best drivers car... and to my suprise the Subaru WRX STI came in second place after the Noble M400. WOW....
I say wow because I own an STI and I ordered the Elise because I wanted a fast, great handling car to take to the track and to use on twisty mountain roads, and still keep the Sti for practial purposes. It never occurred to me that the Sti would be a great track car, and I never thought in a million years that is was a better handling car and faster on a track than the Elise. What a shock. In the Auto Car issue the Subaru actually was quicker around Brands Hatch than both the Exige and the Elise...can this be or is it a type error?? No it was quicker.
Exige-56.2 sec
Subaru-55.5
Elise-57.4
And all this time I never knew I had one of the best handling cars right here under my nose. I know the Sti has great gobs of power and lots of torque, but I have never taken it to a track yet, but now I know that it is indeed a great handling vehicle as well.
Now I think in order to get a faster track car than the Sti I should be looking toward the Noble, Porsche GT3 or even the Radical instead of the Elise. I just can't figure out why most of the magazines say that the Elise is one of the best handling cars in the world, and a very fast track car, when a lowly Subaru impreza can beat it around a race track. Really opens your eyes. I know that the Elise will beat the Subaru in an autocross event , but I am talking about driving on a real race track, and to my surpise the Subaru wins.
Noble M12, here I come.
It is really too bad that Vauxhall is not sold in the US because the vx220 did very well indeed, much faster than the Elise.
I think anyone out there who is getting the Elise purely as a track toy might want to rethink his decision because there are a lot of faster drivers cars out there, if speed is what your looking for.
 

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Maverick1 said:
I was reading an issue of Auto Car magazine(July 27/04) when I came across a very interesting issue about finding Britains best drivers car... and to my suprise the Subaru WRX STI came in second place after the Noble M400. WOW....
I say wow because I own an STI and I ordered the Elise because I wanted a fast, great handling car to take to the track and to use on twisty mountain roads, and still keep the Sti for practial purposes. It never occurred to me that the Sti would be a great track car, and I never thought in a million years that is was a better handling car and faster on a track than the Elise. What a shock. In the Auto Car issue the Subaru actually was quicker around Brands Hatch than both the Exige and the Elise...can this be or is it a type error?? No it was quicker.
Exige-56.2 sec
Subaru-55.5
Elise-57.4
And all this time I never knew I had one of the best handling cars right here under my nose. I know the Sti has great gobs of power and lots of torque, but I have never taken it to a track yet, but now I know that it is indeed a great handling vehicle as well.
Now I think in order to get a faster track car than the Sti I should be looking toward the Noble, Porsche GT3 or even the Radical instead of the Elise. I just can't figure out why most of the magazines say that the Elise is one of the best handling cars in the world, and a very fast track car, when a lowly Subaru impreza can beat it around a race track. Really opens your eyes. I know that the Elise will beat the Subaru in an autocross event , but I am talking about driving on a real race track, and to my surpise the Subaru wins.
Noble M12, here I come.
It is really too bad that Vauxhall is not sold in the US because the vx220 did very well indeed, much faster than the Elise.
I think anyone out there who is getting the Elise purely as a track toy might want to rethink his decision because there are a lot of faster drivers cars out there, if speed is what your looking for.
The European STI is a very different car than the one sold here in the USA. Also it would depend on the track.
 

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The US Elise with a Sport Package should be very similar to the Exige times.
 

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I have an sti also for my winter beater haha:D

I love my sti and i love the elise

after driving both back to back my feeling is the sti had more power down low but when elise came on cam it was awesome. The sti has a firmer ride than a touring elise.
The elise seemed to corner with less body roll.


I did not rev the elise to redline in deference to the future owner of the dealers demo or try to corner hard in deference to my salesperson.


I dont think you will be dissapointed with the elise as a track car but thats just my 2c

I am replacing a boxster as my daily summer driver and was more concerned about liveability and light track use.
 

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Re: Re: Subaru STI faster on track than an Elise..?????

Derek said:
The European STI is a very different car than the one sold here in the USA. Also it would depend on the track.

Yeah the US one is faster. The 05 STi Is an insanely fast car.
 

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Derek said:
The European STI is a very different car than the one sold here in the USA.
Yes, but this time the US gets the better version! Unless they tested some special model, the standard US STi is superiour to the European model. We get the 2.5l with 300 HP, Europe gets the 2.0l with ~270 HP. Do they get the DCCD now? I don't think the European STi has the revised front suspension geometry with more caster.

Maverick1: I still think that the Elise will handle better, but it does sound like you underestimated your current car. The STi has excellent handling right out of the box, and will be faster than most cars in a comparable price range.
 

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..which brings up the question everyone wants answered. "why not put a decent looking body (smaller lighter coupe) on the sti/evo platforms???"
 

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Yep, I've watched an UK spec WRX STi whip a whole bunch of S1 Elisii. That said, he totally killed all 4 tyres in the space of 3 sessions and had no brain...
 

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fitfan said:
..which brings up the question everyone wants answered. "why not put a decent looking body (smaller lighter coupe) on the sti/evo platforms???"


The Sti Drivetrain is near perfection to bad it is enclosed in a ugly sedan. If they made a sport coupe with the Sti drivetrain I would buy it, it wouldn't even have to be any lighter.
 

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fitfan said:
"why not put a decent looking body (smaller lighter coupe) on the sti/evo platforms???"
I don't think they could make a very lightweight car based on that drivetrain. The AWD does add weight. The STi is about 200lbs heavier than a base WRX, and some parts of the car are lighter, so there's reason to believe that it's mostly drivetrain pieces (6 speed, additional differentials) that make the difference. It would be great if they could loose a few hundred lbs, but I doubt that they could build a car much under 3000lbs on that platform.

The Impreza is fairly small. It's barely (less than an inch) wider than an Elise. Considerably longer (25"), and of course higher.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks guys for your inputs, I will....

I will probably still go with the Elise because I don't think I could afford the Noble or GT3 right now, and I don't want to demo my STI tires on the track, they are very expensive. It is too bad that Vauxhall did not sell cars in the US, the VXR220 sounds like a rocket. 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, that is supercar teritory.
Any chance of getting more power out of the Elise?? Turbo or supercharger??
 

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Wasn't it the limited hardcore version of the VX220, called the VXR220? Anyway, that car was rated lower than either the Elise or Exige.

The Elise really isn't about pure lap times to me, but if it bothers you that much, you might be better off with something else or the Elise with a Honda engine in it! The STi really makes up ground with its power and awd. Personally I enjoy the entire experience of the Elise, from the steering to the open top. Many faster cars out there.

Articles aren't very good grounds to make final decisions on, merely another data point. Take a look at the results and you'll see lap times aren't the sole criterion.
 

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Re: Re: Subaru STI faster on track than an Elise..?????

ConeFusion said:
Yes, but this time the US gets the better version! Unless they tested some special model, the standard US STi is superiour to the European model. We get the 2.5l with 300 HP, Europe gets the 2.0l with ~270 HP. Do they get the DCCD now? I don't think the European STi has the revised front suspension geometry with more caster.

Maverick1: I still think that the Elise will handle better, but it does sound like you underestimated your current car. The STi has excellent handling right out of the box, and will be faster than most cars in a comparable price range.
You should know by now that virtually everything car wise (except the Elise thank goodness) that gets imported to the US is watered down and covered in Nurf.

Here is a prime example of the "Bigger is Better mentality that is so prevalent here in the USA. Let me get this straight, you buy an STI because you want a rally car for the street. But wait, I don’t want it with the same race proven, infinitely tunable and virtually indestructible 2.0 litre engine that the real rally car gets. Give me the 2.5 out of the legacy wagon… What!
The amazing part of this is most people here think this is a “good thing”

As for Europe getting the crappy version I guess you can run right down to any local Subaru dealer and order up a brand new WR1 right? I though not.

WR1
 

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>>>I just can't figure out why most of the magazines say that the Elise is one of the best handling cars in the world, and a very fast track car, when a lowly Subaru impreza can beat it around a race track.<<<

[Handling] Not = [Lap Times]

This test rewarded higher powered cars. Power is not handling. And the way an STI or EVO gets good times is not always pretty to behold and tends to be hard on the bits. Tires, brake pads, fuel and so forth are consumed in mass quantities. Were the test on twisty mountain roads the Lotus likely would have won. If you like, you can add power to the Lotus.

And all of this says nothing about the actual driving experience, what it was like for the nut behind the wheel. For examples Subies have squishy pillowey steering bushings for that novocaine experience.

The cars they tested are good, but they sure do vary from each other in some cases.
 

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This conversation is very timely. I watched World Rally Japan the other night on Speed. Highly entertaining, and it's the only form of racing that makes me want to go out and buy a production car.
I don't watch Nascar and say to myself "I've got to get me one of them thar Taurus." It's hard to figure out what you should want to buy after watching an Indy race. And Formula One doesn't work for me as I don't need an extra reason to want a Ferrari. It's easy to watch Rally and realize that I need an STi though.
 

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yeah, the sti is a great car...
i test drove the evo and the sti....in stock form, i felt the sti was a little better car for a little more money. since i knew i would not keep either stock, and hp is usually easier to make than handling, i chose to buy the better handling car....which to me was the evo...not only that, the evo came to the states with same motor 2.0 they have been using since 1991 or something...
someone touched on the sti having an all new engine for the states....well that is a problem for tuners and modders...they were starting from scratch whereas the evo guys were waaaay ahead in the game....
stan, have u ever seen an evo race in the rain, on dirt, in mud, or even in snow like they were actually designed to do?

anyway, im not at all surprised that an sti beat an elise on a given track....tracks come in all shapes and sizes and the more the track is considered a horsepower track, a car like the elise becomes underpowered....a slow track with many hard turns, off camber turns turns etc, is the elises' playground
 

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sti 2.5 won wards 10 best engine award for 2004

Vishnu has lots of mods

Im ok with a 2.5 love the car love the motor

best thing about it.

My 60yr old dad has been driving it all summer. One day he went for breakfast in it. He pulled up and a customer asked if he drove it fast enough to use the rear spoiler.

My dads reply............ What is a spoiler

:D
 

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maverick, who knows, depending on your skill level you might be faster in the elise (maybe easier to drive fast) than the STi...

one driver was faster around one particular track in the STi. As others have said, depending on the track the Elise may outperform the Sti. And besides all this talk about track times, did the article have a "fun to drive" quotient???
 

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I own an Evo and should be getting my Elise in a few months. I just test drove the Elise pretty extensively last week (and have driven euro models prior). Although I didn't rev it over 5k, I can definitely comment on the handling/steering/braking.

I was actually surprised that the Elise reminded me of the Evo. The steering is RIGHT NOW quick, although the Evo's is slightly boosted. The suspension (non-LSS) is stiff enough to be brutal on broken pavement but fine everywhere else, and it has that same feel of a race car suspension where the car just bobs up and down over bumps but never loses contact. Braking is firm and progressive all the time. Of course, the steering wheel/airbag is clearly from the same parts bin shelf.

It think its unusual that, despite the fact that these are two totally different implementations of a performance car, the driving experience can be so similar. I'll have to wait until I break-in my own Elise to comment on the power, but the Evo and Elise are both hard core performance cars.

Anybody who has NOT driven an Evo yet owes it to themself to do so. It is an AMAZING car. I used to watch WRC tarmac Rally stages and wonder how in the hell they got their cars to weight transfer and turn so quick. One tight switchback in the Evo at speed and I was like "Ohh....thats how"..... The Evo actually does handle 100% like you'd expect a WRC car would with a tarmac setup. And thats coming from a guy who owns a 911 and two M3s. The Evo is the best handling car I've ever driven (I expect the Elise to challenge that once I get comfy with it) and that includes a LOT of fast exotics.

As for the STi. I liked it a lot, got to drive one at speed. It definitely has a more usable power band than the Evo. But 310hp out of an Evo is a simple ECU flash and cat back ($650 for both). And the EVO was the clear winner in handling. And as far as mods go, the 2.0 I4in the EVO has a huge aftermarket already out there, the 2.5 flat4 in the STi is a challenge to the tuners.

Evo + Elise = Best of Both Worlds

-Dave
'00 Porsche 996 C2 aero
'03 Evolution VIII
'97 M3
'89 M3
'05 Lotus Elise ordered and waiting (Nov 03?)
 

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agree with everyone else...i would buy a evo or sti for daily driver if it wasnt sooo ugly and looked like a teenager car...as far as performance, not much can touch it for the money
 
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