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I don't think a 10" would fit. You can't tell from the picture, but the actual outside edge of the speaker is only about 1/2" from the foot rest and same on the top. I had to machine out those areas of the housing just to get the 8" to fit. But if you don't want it to be flush with the footrest, it might work.

I have been asked by a few people to build one, but I don't have anymore of the aluminum honecomb material I used. Besides, the cost would be prohibitive.
 

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Isn't it not just a matter of what can physically fit, but also a matter of the air volume? I suppose you could use a free air woofer and then it won't matter, but aren't you supposed to get better sound from a woofer in a properly designed sealed enclosure (or port the enclosure to decrease its size)? I'm not an audio expert, I know just enough to get myself into trouble, so maybe someone else can chime in here. I'm just not so sure that fitting the biggest subwoofer possible is the best approach here.
 

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MattG said:
Isn't it not just a matter of what can physically fit, but also a matter of the air volume? I suppose you could use a free air woofer and then it won't matter, but aren't you supposed to get better sound from a woofer in a properly designed sealed enclosure (or port the enclosure to decrease its size)? I'm not an audio expert, I know just enough to get myself into trouble, so maybe someone else can chime in here. I'm just not so sure that fitting the biggest subwoofer possible is the best approach here.
Very good point. I don't have my elise yet and had no idea how much volume you could get out of a box in there. Looking at it now, I would guess that a 10" sub probably wouldn't be a good idea. Although, there are subs specifically designed to operate in low volume boxes, or even free air as you mentioned.

I'm just not sure I'd be satisfied with an 8" sub - guess I'll have to try it when the time comes. My alternate solution is to put the 12" sub that's in my current car in the trunk (assuming that would fit), and then take it out whenever I need trunk space or autox/track.
 

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Graydon said:
......... My alternate solution is to put the 12" sub that's in my current car in the trunk (assuming that would fit), and then take it out whenever I need trunk space or autox/track.
Since you don't own an Elise yet, do you know that the Elise trunk is physically separated from the passenger compartment by the engine? Thus I don't think it would have much musical impact inside the car.


Greg
 

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Racer X said:
Since you don't own an Elise yet, do you know that the Elise trunk is physically separated from the passenger compartment by the engine? Thus I don't think it would have much musical impact inside the car.
Greg
Bass will have a good impact no matter where it is - it is non directional (unlike mids & highs), and many times it works better by bouncing off panels or the frame of the car. For example, for subs in the trunk of any standard sedan/hatchback or even SUV, you will get more bass by pointing your sub towards the rear of the car than you will by pointing it forward. More bass is created by the bounce off the back & corners of your trunk.

If you have ever opened up your trunk and stood behind a car with subs, then walked around and sat inside the car, you know that you get a lot more bass when sitting inside. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that an identical sub with the same power and same volume box would be louder (maybe quite a bit) if it is in the trunk than if it is in the passenger footwell. The reason being that the sound waves need something to bounce off of to create good bass. Any takers? :p Obviously we'd need some SPL measuring equipment, and well, I need my elise.
 

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While that may be true in a normal sedan, it is because there is an airflow connection between the trunk and the cabin which allows the sound to flow. In an Elise that sound path does not exist. Some sound may transfer thru the chassis. With that method of transmission you would be better off with transducers hooked directly to the seats. It would be much more efficient. I am sure when you get your Elise you will see what I am talking about.

The Elise is a very poor acoustical environment. There is insufficient isolation from ambient noise and vibration induced noise. It is like being in an open drum.

Good luck on your sound system.

Greg
 

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Racer X said:
Since you don't own an Elise yet, do you know that the Elise trunk is physically separated from the passenger compartment by the engine? Thus I don't think it would have much musical impact inside the car.


Greg
I think Graydon wants to be one of those considerate people who play bass primarily for the benefit of people in nearby cars. (-:

kbob
 

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Racer X said:
While that may be true in a normal sedan, it is because there is an airflow connection between the trunk and the cabin which allows the sound to flow. In an Elise that sound path does not exist. Some sound may transfer thru the chassis. With that method of transmission you would be better off with transducers hooked directly to the seats. It would be much more efficient. I am sure when you get your Elise you will see what I am talking about.
Incorrect. No airflow is needed. Low frequency sound travels much better through the frame/panels of a car than it does through air. I have been to many stereo competitions and can prove this to you with an SPL measuring device. Once again, I will wager that this is the case with the elise. The engine being inbetween the trunk & cockpit has very little effect.

The Elise is a very poor acoustical environment. There is insufficient isolation from ambient noise and vibration induced noise. It is like being in an open drum.
I would agree with you here, even though I don't have my elise yet. This is going to affect your stereo throughout high, mid and low frequency ranges. I am still confident that I can put together a stereo system that will overcome the high level of road noise. If I wanted a car that would have very low road noise, I woulda bought a luxury car, but fortunately that's not my priority. ;)

Good luck on your sound system.
Why thank you! I will definitely post specs once it is done.
 

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kbob said:
I think Graydon wants to be one of those considerate people who play bass primarily for the benefit of people in nearby cars. (-:

kbob
Thanks for your opinion kbob, but unfortunately you are dead wrong. Fact is, music is one of the few passions in my life that is more important to me than cars, and yes, that includes the elise. I realize there are quite a few people out there that play music for the attention of others, but that is not me. I listen to music I'm passionate about, and the music I listen to requires a certain amount of bass. Yes, you may slightly hear it if you pull up next to me, but I guarantee it is no where near the level of the "attention getters". By the way, I don't listen to hiphop, which I'm guessing is what the majority of you are annoyed with.
 

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I look forward to your results, Graydon. I have not yet started to work on my solution, but like you music is huge to me. XM has been great, but I'd like to hear it through a quality system, and I'm contemplating custom work behind the seats. I'm not all that worried about the "sensor".
 

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Graydon said:
Thanks for your opinion kbob, but unfortunately you are dead wrong. Fact is, music is one of the few passions in my life that is more important to me than cars, and yes, that includes the elise. I realize there are quite a few people out there that play music for the attention of others, but that is not me. I listen to music I'm passionate about, and the music I listen to requires a certain amount of bass. Yes, you may slightly hear it if you pull up next to me, but I guarantee it is no where near the level of the "attention getters". By the way, I don't listen to hiphop, which I'm guessing is what the majority of you are annoyed with.
Hiphop is very annoying. Rap (which is actually an abbreviation of crap) is worse. I didn't think that anything could be worse than American rap music until I heard rap in Spanish - ouch.

I yearn for the halcyon days of the 60's and 70's. It's been all downhill for music ever since.
 

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I've built several subs, and have a lot of experience with the design process. You have to look at what fits in the space, as well as what kind of response you want. It's true that free-air and ported systems will play louder than sealed systems. This is partly due to the fact that they usually take less power to run (the efficiency) and that they play certain frequencies at a higher volume than others. These frequencies are tuned into the design in ported systems. Sealed systems can present a "flat" frequency response without boominess, but they take a LOT of power to do it with most drivers. As for our cars, there are several 8" drivers available which need only .25-.4 cu.-ft. to work. A bigger cone will always play lower, but with adequate power, a small cone will give the "punch" that I think most of us are looking for (besides 6200+ rpm). I'm working on one for the floor like tbsmith's, but using MDF. I did one for my 914 and it worked great.
 

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jml1952 said:
Hiphop is very annoying. Rap (which is actually an abbreviation of crap) is worse. I didn't think that anything could be worse than American rap music until I heard rap in Spanish - ouch.

I yearn for the halcyon days of the 60's and 70's. It's been all downhill for music ever since.
Yeah and Blue is better then Red. C'mon man you can't be serious with such a general statement. How can anyone say that any particular type of music can cover the range of emotions one may have. Some days are rock-n-roll while other days may be filled with Jazz. Too enjoy only one kind would be crap.
 

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Brian 111 said:
I've built several subs, and have a lot of experience with the design process. You have to look at what fits in the space, as well as what kind of response you want. It's true that free-air and ported systems will play louder than sealed systems. This is partly due to the fact that they usually take less power to run (the efficiency) and that they play certain frequencies at a higher volume than others. These frequencies are tuned into the design in ported systems. Sealed systems can present a "flat" frequency response without boominess, but they take a LOT of power to do it with most drivers. As for our cars, there are several 8" drivers available which need only .25-.4 cu.-ft. to work. A bigger cone will always play lower, but with adequate power, a small cone will give the "punch" that I think most of us are looking for (besides 6200+ rpm). I'm working on one for the floor like tbsmith's, but using MDF. I did one for my 914 and it worked great.
Yep - bandpass (and ported enclosures to a lesser extent) provide a lot more bass for the same power. But they are also quite inaccurate (boomy as you mentioned), which to me kills the sound. So I'm stuck with using sealed enclosures and pumping a lot more power. Oh well.

I'd be very interested to hear the aluminum box - I would guess that it wouldn't sound very good, as the sound is shaped by the resonances of the enclosure and my guess is that aluminum wouldn't work very well - but I could be wrong. So tbsmith - how does it sound? I've built several sub boxes as well, and have always used MDF, so that's what I plan on doing.
 

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Graydon,

I don't have much to compare it to, especially in an open car. It certainly adds enough to where I am satisfied, especially over the stock speakers.

The front is honeycomb and the sides, top and bottom are wood, so it is only partially aluminum. The footwell serves as the back, with weatherstripping serving as a seal between the two (admittedly not perfect). Also, the cabinet volume is way too small for this speaker.

Tom
 

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tbsmith said:
Graydon,

I don't have much to compare it to, especially in an open car. It certainly adds enough to where I am satisfied, especially over the stock speakers.

The front is honeycomb and the sides, top and bottom are wood, so it is only partially aluminum. The footwell serves as the back, with weatherstripping serving as a seal between the two (admittedly not perfect). Also, the cabinet volume is way too small for this speaker.

Tom
Ah, ok. For some reason I was thinking that the box was constructed of flat aluminum panels, which would flex with every beat and not sound so good (I would imagine). With wood on 4 sides, the footwell on the back, and the honeycomb structure on the front probably don't do this. If the aluminum was flexing, it would be very obvious to even an non-audiophile.

Where did you get the honeycomb aluminum from? Did you look into subwoofers that require low volume enclosures? If you ever think you need a little more bass, this may be the answer, as speakers can respond terribly if they don't have the appropriate sized enclosure.
 

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Graydon,

I got the honeycomb from the dumpster at work. I had no idea what I was going to use it for at the time so I threw it in the scrap bin. It seemed like the perfect application when I found it a few years later. The aluminum ring around the speaker also came from the scrap bin - I had salvaged it from an old hard drive (real old as you can estimate from the size of the platters).

I confess that I selected the speaker based on looks (it had to have an aluminum cone) and cost ($25 from MCM electronics). I'm sure there would be better choices from a purely sonic perspective.

The cabinet volume is really tiny - do you know any 8" aluminum speakers that might be better?

Tom
 

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Hmmm... I just checked out crutchfield.com and searched for free air subs (you can do the same by searching for "free air" and all the free air subs come up), but they only had 2 8" free air subs, and neither of them were aluminum.

However, if you look at all of the 8" subs, you will find the MTX Thunder 4500 with an aluminum cone and only requires .25 cubic feet of sealed volume:



And the Polk/MOMO MM2084 that only requires .35 cubic feet and might go well with the aluminum:



But that's only Crutchfield - I'm sure there's a lot more out there if you do some digging. I did a quick search of 8" aluminum subs on ebay and it came back with 30 hits, including this one:



Anyway, all that matters is if you are happy with the sound - if you are, there's no point in messing around with it, it looks pretty good as is. I just know I probably wouldn't be.
 

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My component system is finally in (today). It sounds great on the upper end and midrange, and the bass is better--- but still underwhelming. I'll probably be looking a small subwoofer for behind the seats. Maybe Stan's solution. Or maybe I'll live with this definite improvement on the stock system.
 
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