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Styling looks like the lastest Mitsubishi 3000 GT to me. What are the performance targets? (0-60, 1/4 mile, lateral g's ?) Cost?

Thomas
 

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Buy the Elise now. Drive it for a year or two until the C6 Z06 comes out (6.6L, 500HP, 2900 lbs). Then if you haven't fallen completely in love with the Elise, you can trade for the Z06 which will likely give the Elise trouble on bigger tracks.

I think you'll have trouble giving up the Elise, though.

The C6 Z06 will be ~55K.

Or wait another two years for the rumored "Blue Devil" (427ci, 625HP, 2900 lbs), that is supposed to rival the Ford GT and Vipers and put GM back on top of the horsepower wars. That one's projected price is 100K, though.........
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
They are in price though (C6 & Elise) and the C6 is equal to a current Z06. I know there different but I think that an Elise w/sport package and touring package is getting pretty pricey, and is still a raw, and small car. Kinda wonder why the Elise is so much $$$. Dont get me wrong I still love the Elise look and tossability, but think its losing it's $$$ appeal. The new Vette is larger and more comfortable yet will still be a whole second quicker in the 1/4 mile (which is alot) and hold road courses pretty tightly. I guess I'm just observing the price creep and hope Lotus and the dealers remember how to be competitive.
 

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$$$. Dont get me wrong I still love the Elise look and tossability, but think its losing it's $$$ appeal... I guess I'm just observing the price creep and hope Lotus and the dealers remember how to be competitive.
Because, the auto industry and especially GM is toast. GM losses an average of $2,500 per car sold; GM decides to loose money instead of shutting down factory, because in part union wages are guaranteed, so GM has to pay out the workers even if they do nothing.

For a very short time, Lotus and its dealers can suffer from amnesia about the market condition and try to squeeze every drop of blood; it won't last. Lotus is one more price hike from pricing out of the US market.
 

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The more and more I think about it, the less I think I will be getting the Elise. I love the car, but I don't love it at $40K. It simply doesn't represent good value in my opinion. The S2000 has just been upgraded and is $10K less with far better reliability and wide dealer network.

I realize the Elise is in its own way like no other car out there. However, it is simply not worth $40K. This argument doesn't hold in the UK where cars are more expensive in general. The car should be closer to $30K. Also, it seems Lotus is trying to scrape as much money as possible by charging $1200 for paint (if the rumors are true). It seems to me they will likely honor the sub $40K price at $39995 and then charge for everything else...
electric windows, AC, paint, etc. Maybe it is because the dollar has plummeted. Also, who knows what games dealers will play. The resale value on the Elise will drop quick. Any money spent over MSRP is money wasted. If we all waited 2 yrs plus for this thing, keep waiting so MSRP is all we pay. No one has to pay more.
 

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The resale value on the Elise will drop quick. Any money spent over MSRP is money wasted. If we all waited 2 yrs plus for this thing, keep waiting so MSRP is all we pay. No one has to pay more. [/B]
In 2 years, a used Elise will be about 50% MSRP regardless of how much you pay now. The used car market is dead, and I don't care what anyone say, an Elise will not hold value any better than a Boxster, or a Masareti.
 

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The volume difference between the Elise and Corvette is huge. The Elise is a handbuilt chassis, and that costs alot of money when you consider labor is more expensive than machinery that spits out parts or assemblies 24 hours a day. The Elise is still a relative bargain when you consider it's hand built. If the Elise had 50-100 more hp, it would probably be the fastest street car that one could buy. It will, in it's present state, do things on a track the Corvette will never be able to do because of it's light weight. I would be surprised if, in the near future, there aren't upgrades that boost the power in the Elise to the point that it outperforms all production cars on the track. The potential is there (light weight), it just needs to be developed. The most important ingredient for performance is already present in the Elise - light weight. That is just the element missing, and unattainable, in other street legal cars one can buy.

That is why I'm buying one.

Jeff
 

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To add to my previous post -

The Corvette is a wonderful car, alot of performance for the money. I would never downplay it's performance, because I've seen what it can do on the track. If the successor to the Z06 is better than the current one, it will be an engineering masterpiece. My feeling is GM just needs to put a few finishing touches together to make it an exceptional car.
 

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Also remember guys: Fall 95 is also the launch of the all new
Porsche Boxster
Mercedes SLK

So, by around October of next year, all the Lotus competitors will have new cars in the showrooms.
 

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The boxster??? Cmon, the only way they can improve the present design is to s**tcan it. (sorry agent.5 but I can't like the boxster especially since the only way to look at the engine is to put in on a lift! What's up with that!)Certainly not even close in price. Isn't the comparable performing boxster in the 55K range? And how many hundreds of pounds heavier?

The S2000 is probably the only real comparison and it's still a much heavier car and less rawness to it.

Don't how you can compare a corvette to an elise, the cars aren't even in the same category really.

The original price estimate on the Elise over two years ago (and about a 30-40 cent increase in the dollar to pound ratio) was 38,500 - 39,000, the car base price is 39900, in fairness the touring package was broken out of that so another grand on top, that's a deal breaker???? It's incredible Lotus has been able to hold so close the original price since the dollar is now worth squat in UK/Europe with no signs of any improvement.

I'll take my nimble little elise over any of the aforementioned porkers any day of the week.

Chris

;)
 

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zvezdah1 said:
The boxster??? Cmon, the only way they can improve the present design is to s**tcan it. Certainly not even close in price. Isn't the comparable performing boxster in the 55K range?


No it is not. Boxster is selling at $1K over invoice at the present. The new Cayenne is only a couple K over invoice. Hint: Porsche is not selling at full list price. It may not matter to you or me or all the other die-hards on this forum. But to anyone else, the joe 6 pack car buying public, it matters much. Let's admit it: Boxster has better name recognition and is more suitable for the poser crowd.

So, the sucker that is going to pay $20K over MSRP for an Elise from a Lotus dealer who is gong to screw another forum member here with a written contract at MSRP (as discussed on the other thread) will look at other alternatives; and how much you want to bet that he (not being a sexiest -- I just don't think a woman can be this stupid) will choose a Boxster instead of an Elise.
 

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but agent, the number of people who will pay 20k over sticker has got to be very small, for the vast unwashed masses (like me) will be paying sticker for the car.

Yep, but if Porsche keeps coming up with "winners" like the Cayenne, they're not liable to "name recognition" (at least in a good way) for long.

So what's the new boxster s selling for with comp. equip?
Chris
 

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So what's the new boxster s selling for with comp. equip?
Chris [/B]
For a 2003 base Boxster with limited options (Elise don't have much options either) about 210 hp: I think it is about USD
$37,121 base
$765 destination
$1000 dealer profit

or
$38886

plus tax and license, basically less than an Elise (and guess what almost everyone including those in the UK thinks that a Boxster is a more expensive car than an Elise)

For those that want a Boxster S, which will have zero difference in daily driving, the base is
$45,001, so about $8K more. (source: www.kbb.com)
 

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Friend of mine just got a boxster S at 9k under list. I paid 3k under list 2.5 years ago.

New boxster is due 2005 (Unsure if that is in 2005 or as a MY2005 car) and will probably be priced up to around 48-55k to start and maybe 60-65k for the S models. No chance they wont raise the cost IMO.

C6 corvettes will be scarce and expensive. 50k to start. Yes, its fast, but the c6 is a new vehicle and will have the standard corvette setup which is no z06. The z06 is not due for another year, and will be near 60k. They have a better hp to weight ratio, but the <2000lb weight of the elise makes a huge difference in a race.

S2000 is an issue, though it is not as invigorating to drive IMO.

Remember, cars are priced to the point they will sell. NOT what they are worth, or how a company can make money, only at a point they can sell. If that point goes below making money, they stop selling the car.

My guess is the demographics show 40k as the sweetspot for a fairly quirky small scale car which can make fun of many a supercar. Considering the car is "sold out" by most estimates from many dealers for the first year, lotus seems to have hit the nail on the head in terms of prices. My guess is hte prices have plenty of room in them in terms of profit margins to give the dealers some headroom in th years to come. Remember, this is NOT a new car, even if the "platform" is of a newer edition, the tooling already exists and has been used for years. Its probably even fully paid for at this point! Its still a gamble to come to america, but I think Lotus will be ok.



My final point is this. Lets try to count the people here who could extract the last 1/10th of a percent of the ability of the car. Ok, that makes.. well 1-2 people MAYBE. In general terms, on the track the elise will be fairly equal to your buddy in a corvette. In fact, having driven the corvette many times in the past, the test drive of the elise, and my current boxster s I will hazard a guess you will be FASTER than your buddy in a vette in no time flat. Its just MUCH easier to learn and go faster in a lighter mid-engined car with incredible traction vs a front engined car with a habit of torque enduced oversteer. The more HP you have the tigher that knife-edge gets.

Scot
 

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Talk about trying to compare the Elise value to the other so called competition floors me. We are getting likely "the best handling car in the world" (at any price), a car that will out accelerate most stock cars under $100K, a hand built, beautiful - eye catching unique car. The s2000s, boxsters, corvettes are everywhere! Where's the fun in being just another one on the road.

Lotus also has great heritage. I am also reminded that the Elise in the past has been displayed at shows in the exotic car area, as the only car under $100grand in that section. Can you imaging going to a show's exotic car section and seeing a boxter or S2000???

No doubt in my mind, again with the poor dollar exchange, that the Elise, even in the mid 40's -equiped- is a bargin!

I'm still in, but for MSRP. I want this car bad, but will wait if it requires letting the suckers gouge the value by paying over sticker.:(
 
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