[jahwerx]

I too have a wait list number and "MSRP" clearly marked on my deposit receipt, but how can one "audit" a dealer to determine the "real" distribution of new arrivals.

With all the gripes about some dealers admittingly giving people willing to pay dealer markup priority, how can one be so sure that the most seemingly "honest" dealers aren't, in fact, doing the exact same thing.

It would be tough to pull off for someone in the "top 10", but a little further down the rung (like me) I could see a flurry of cars getting sold before I get tapped to place my order.

Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Ridgemanron]

The internet allows us to get constant updates regarding the amount of cars going into dealerships. While not exact,
it is possible to know within a month or so if the dealer has received cars past your reservation number. They would then have to deal with Lotus USA, the media, as well as the attorney general
with regard to unscrupulous business
practices. Can't see it happening in this
computerized age. Think positive, my friend.

 

[babak]

They would then have to deal with Lotus USA, the media, as well as the attorney general
with regard to unscrupulous business
practices.

Lotus has time and again made it known that they do not recommend deposits or wait lists. To me that sounds like they are washing their hands off what might happen at the end of the line.

 

[MarvinVA]

site address?

Ridgemanron, you said "The internet allows us to get constant updates regarding the amount of cars going into dealerships. While not exact,
it is possible to know within a month or so if the dealer has received cars past your reservation number. "

Can you give me the URL to this internet site please?

Thanks

 

[Win]

Re: site address?

Ridgemanron, you said "The internet allows us to get constant updates regarding the amount of cars going into dealerships. While not exact,
it is possible to know within a month or so if the dealer has received cars past your reservation number. "

Can you give me the URL to this internet site please?

Thanks

I think he was referring to sites like this one where there are customers who collaborate together.

 

[zvezdah1]

I think you can be pretty confident that people on this list WON"T keep it a secret when they get their cars. I'll post within an hour of getting back from my first drive!

Chris

 

[jahwerx]

I think that less than 25% of all buyers are even aware of boards like this, and I'm sure there a lot of people with deposits down that would probably choose not to post anyway (heck, maybe they got bumped UP because of accepting delaer markup, etc.)

What I've done is pretty much convinced myself that the specific wait list number doesn't mean a heck of a lot .. its more relative.

1-10 - yeah you'll probably get your vehicle in one of the first or second batches
11-30 - who knows 2-5 months after delivery starts
31-?? - good chance you'll end up with a 2005 model at some point

... all the while trading will definitely be going on for people willing to pay premiums.

I'm not being negative, just realistic.

BTW: I've never seen a "wait list" board hanging up at any dealer

 

[James A]

I know some games must go on, but I have had nothing but good luck with wait lists, I have found that people drop off the lists when the time comes to buy. I was on a wait list for my M5 that should have been 9 months, it was three due to people dropping off. Another aspect of the list was that people thought they could get on the list and "sell" their spot, unless they buy the car most dealers don't recognize your right to sell a spot. I also think you will see a lot of people drop of the Elise list due to price or their first test drive. I think a lot of people who have put down deposits without driving or even seeing the car will be surprised at it's sparten nature and will not feel it is worth $50,000 out the door.

 

[Sownman]

What happened with LA area MINI dealers is that they had wait lists for their allotments of approx 25 "S" models per month. You would believe that if you were #75 it would take 3 months, not true. Most of them ordered a few cars a month to list people specs then the others in the allotment to dealer specs. The delivered the cars to list people with added lojac and floor mats for $2500 markup and sold the dealer spec cars to walk ins at larger markups. There was/is no gaurantee that if you are number 15 on the list that your car will be the 15th one ordered.

Not being negative here, but this was the reality with MINI in S Calif. I waited 14 months to get a MINI S at MSRP from the only dealer in LA who did not engage in these games. When it finally came I passed on it, as by then I had purchased a new Civic and was on Elise lists.

The idea that we'll be able to monitor dealer activity is rather
far fetched. Few wait list people actually find their way to this forum.


Steve

 

[Lotus F1]

Maybe our gracious host can make a dealer forum, in which all dealers are listed individualy. Within each dealer all people who have a deposit can exchange information that is being givin to them from that dealer. At least it would organize this effort better and deal with dealers individual handlings of the car and it's list. They would also be power in unity. We would then also be able to converse on things such as dealer in stalled options, pricing, and delivery times.

 

[MarvinVA]

Great Idea!

Hey 1FASTMX5, great idea! Just for fun, would any care to throw out thier opinion as to the date I would get by car if I am # 102 on the waitlist for Criswell in Maryland?

Thanks.

 

[Derek]

What happened with LA area MINI dealers is that they had wait lists for their allotments of approx 25 "S" models per month. You would believe that if you were #75 it would take 3 months, not true. Most of them ordered a few cars a month to list people specs then the others in the allotment to dealer specs. The delivered the cars to list people with added lojac and floor mats for $2500 markup and sold the dealer spec cars to walk ins at larger markups. There was/is no gaurantee that if you are number 15 on the list that your car will be the 15th one ordered.

Not being negative here, but this was the reality with MINI in S Calif. I waited 14 months to get a MINI S at MSRP from the only dealer in LA who did not engage in these games. When it finally came I passed on it, as by then I had purchased a new Civic and was on Elise lists.

The idea that we'll be able to monitor dealer activity is rather
far fetched. Few wait list people actually find their way to this forum.


Steve

Minis see much higher production that the Elise will so I think it will for the most part be different with Lotus. I expect most dealers will honor the wait list and not play games. However I am also sure that some dealers will split up their allotment as you have suggested. This action would pretty much negate the purpose of a wait list.

 

[jml1952]

I had a nice, lengthy chat with Nick at Symbolic. Despite the concerns expressed about what might happen there, our discussion left me with a good feeling that things will work out ok. They want to make their new customers happy, but they also want to reward past customers who are interested in the Elise, so they will make some compromises to try to do both.

Nick made it clear that Lotus has not announced their allocation scheme, so anything that you hear from your dealer still should be regarded as speculation. However, the dealers are busy negotiating with Lotus and suggesting how they would like to see things play out. According to Nick, my position in the top 20 will probably result in my getting a car within the first 3 months, even with the desire to accomodate some "special" customers. But a lot depends on the final allocations for each dealer and the production rate. Nick does not expect that there will be too many more special customers added onto the list, as some already have been identified and added into the current list. Also, he expects some attrition over time as people change their mind about the car for one reason or another.

I feel much better and fairly well reassured about the situation. No promises, but things should work out.

 

[Lotus F1]

Well in all honesty, it is not easy to argue against any business wanting to in some way take care of repeat patrons. As long as it is done within reason and open honesty. I really don't think they should take any new customers with $$$ over people already on the list though.

 

[Sownman]

Minis see much higher production that the Elise will so I think it will for the most part be different with Lotus. I expect most dealers will honor the wait list and not play games. However I am also sure that some dealers will split up their allotment as you have suggested. This action would pretty much negate the purpose of a wait list.

I read the lower production as more likely to be abused. I would prefer you be correct.

Steve

 

[Canyon Carver]

Maybe our gracious host can make a dealer forum, in which all dealers are listed individualy. Within each dealer all people who have a deposit can exchange information that is being givin to them from that dealer. At least it would organize this effort better and deal with dealers individual handlings of the car and it's list. They would also be power in unity. We would then also be able to converse on things such as dealer in stalled options, pricing, and delivery times.

The problem with something like that are Privacy Laws. Dealers simply can't divulge the names of their customers their waiting lists. I have no problems with letting you all know how many poeple are on our waiting list for the Elise (46) but I just can't tell you their names.

 

[Ridgemanron]

Lotus has time and again made it known that they do not recommend deposits or wait lists. To me that sounds like they are washing their hands off what might happen at the end of the line.

read your p.o. and you will see there are
no dealer loop-holes allowing him to disregard your order. he didn't design
that p.o., it had to contain information
set by the state attorney general which
is for the protection of both parties, but
mainly the consumer. the lemon-law
basically works the same way, not allowing the dealer to do as he pleases
in the event of a dispute. -ridgemanron-

 

[xxxotic]

BTW: I've never seen a "wait list" board hanging up at any dealer

The dealer I bought my car at in Palm Beach has it up on the wall of one of their back offices. Also has it up for other brands they sell too. (Dont know if these are meant for customers to see or not) I didnt want to stare but glanced and saw that I was the number that I was told all along. Position #1 is the dealer car.

The dealer has aways been truthful and I have recommended several people to them and their numbers are always consistant with the time that their order was placed. In fact, a person who I thought was #12 is actually #9 so people might actually get bumped up. I'm in the top 10 so luckily the debate about this doesnt concern me so I never asked about it.

Also when I was ordering the dealer let me look at the spreadsheet to see what other people in the top 10 ordered since I didnt want to order the same color car as others in town or as the dealer demo and be mistaked for someone moron who might go for a test drive and cut someone off and then have the person see me driving my car a few days later and get into a case of mistaken identity road rage.

The dealer had a party a few months ago, so most of the people with deposits already know or have met the other people that have placed deposits, and we all know what number we are and some have posted their positons on differant forums. The dealer said they are going to invite all deposit holders in to see their demo when it comes in too.

ps> I plan on doing a comparison of an LSS vs regular setup with another person in the top 10 so this way those of you who are still waiting will be able to get our "Road Test" results of the differances between the two.

 

[Lotus F1]

The problem with something like that are Privacy Laws. Dealers simply can't divulge the names of their customers their waiting lists. I have no problems with letting you all know how many poeple are on our waiting list for the Elise (46) but I just can't tell you their names.

You misunderstand, the forum would be for customers to discuss what they are being told and what is going on with there perspective dealer, not for sales poeple / dealers to offer confidential customer info.

 

[jahwerx]

The dealer I bought my car at in Palm Beach has it up on the wall of one of their back offices. Also has it up for other brands they sell too. (Dont know if these are meant for customers to see or not) I didnt want to stare but glanced and saw that I was the number that I was told all along. Position #1 is the dealer car.

The dealer has aways been truthful and I have recommended several people to them and their numbers are always consistant with the time that their order was placed. In fact, a person who I thought was #12 is actually #9 so people might actually get bumped up. I'm in the top 10 so luckily the debate about this doesnt concern me so I never asked about it.

Also when I was ordering the dealer let me look at the spreadsheet to see what other people in the top 10 ordered since I didnt want to order the same color car as others in town or as the dealer demo and be mistaked for someone moron who might go for a test drive and cut someone off and then have the person see me driving my car a few days later and get into a case of mistaken identity road rage.

The dealer had a party a few months ago, so most of the people with deposits already know or have met the other people that have placed deposits, and we all know what number we are and some have posted their positons on differant forums. The dealer said they are going to invite all deposit holders in to see their demo when it comes in too.

ps> I plan on doing a comparison of an LSS vs regular setup with another person in the top 10 so this way those of you who are still waiting will be able to get our "Road Test" results of the differances between the two.

Your dealer really appears to want to build a relationship with his customers. You are quite fortunate.