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Kind of feel bad for him, but let me list the things he did wrong.

1. Lifted in a corner
2. Hit another car
3. Pulled his e-brake when he stopped (warped rotors)
4. Got out of his car on the track..

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On a higher note, this is one of the coolest spins Ive seen in a Lotus.. Guy handled it really well.

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That 1st vid is the same track my kids have been playing on GT-5 Prologue!rotfl I thought it was a PS3 at first!:D Just the very reason I am cautious on the track. I'm not so worried as myself as I am of others.:rolleyes:
 

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I think the warped rotors where the least on his concerns. I honestly would have done the same thing. :shrug: And I would have definitely got out of the car in a safe place and jumped over the tire wall.

... it's a horrible feeling hitting or getting hit by another car. When it happens your mind is going a 100 mph.

Neil
 

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In the first video I thought he was doing quite well, and really thought it must have been the drummer from def lepard, until I actually saw that he had two hands... I am not sure if he checking for testicular cancer, or what, but the hands might be better placed on the wheel.

Haven't seen the second video before, but I swear I've seen that car somewhere.
 

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In the first video I thought he was doing quite well, and really thought it must have been the drummer from def lepard, until I actually saw that he had two hands... I am not sure if he checking for testicular cancer, or what, but the hands might be better placed on the wheel.

Haven't seen the second video before, but I swear I've seen that car somewhere.
EXACTLY my thought! i'm like how do u NOT have both hands on the wheel?? it reminded me of my mom driving to the library...
 

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Kind of feel bad for him, but let me list the things he did wrong.

1. Lifted in a corner
2. Hit another car
3. Pulled his e-brake when he stopped (warped rotors)
4. Got out of his car on the track..
How about 5) Got out braked into corners by little econo boxes?

Stig, you really think you would get out of the car? I'd NEVER get out of a car on a track unless it was on fire...
 

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How about 5) Got out braked into corners by little econo boxes?

Stig, you really think you would get out of the car? I'd NEVER get out of a car on a track unless it was on fire...
That's the problem... sometime you don't know if you are on fire. I can think of one time in particular... you will have to ask Charliex someday :) In the film he does pull as far off the track as possible and then out. I wouldn't just get out. I would also get out if the car was stalled in the racing line... that's called sitting duck. It all depends on the situation I guess.

Neil
 

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EXACTLY my thought! i'm like how do u NOT have both hands on the wheel?? it reminded me of my mom driving to the library...
first video
hands on wheel that was my only thought(the track speeds were much like mom driving to the library,what a yawner), otherwise i didnt really hear him lift, he didnt hit another car, that was what is called an on track incident, and IMO the other car is equally responsible just for being there.
I doubt his brakes were even hot at those speeds to warp anything, and yes DONT GET OUT OF YOUR CARS, no stig, dont even get out to jump the wall.............you watch to much tv. stay in your car until the track crew comes over to assist you. no exceptions unless you are on fire.

Also there is why the lotus is a risky choice for HPDE(w/o) insurance. that would likely be a hammer and spray can fix in a miata, and back out on track next session.
 

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That's the problem... sometime you don't know if you are on fire. I can think of one time in particular... you will have to ask Charliex someday :) In the film he does pull as far off the track as possible and then out. I wouldn't just get out. I would also get out if the car was stalled in the racing line... that's called sitting duck. It all depends on the situation I guess.

Neil
Neil, I am not trying to attack you, but rather help you.
OK, to address this part
"I would also get out if the car was stalled in the racing line... that's called sitting duck. It all depends on the situation I guess."

you need to be kept off tracks and go to track schools. is the best way i can put this nicely.
sitting in the racing line is when you stay in your car................ the car is THE SAFEST place to be when you are on track. as soon as you undo your belt, you are highly at risk of an injury from another car hitting you, and as you say you are on the racing line. now when you get out of the car, you no longer have steel, or fiberglass(in the lotus ) surrounding you as protection.
next, when you are out of the car and moving to where ever you seem to think you are going, you are unpredictable, and even more likely to get hit.


I am totally amazed that you make these statements, it doesnt show any training in safety, and i do hope you figure it out.
sitting duck vs dead duck.
to summarize; ( FOR NEIL), DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR UNLESS YOU KNOW YOU ARE BURNING, STAY BELTED IN UNTIL THE TRACK CREW ARRIVES, NO EXCEPTIONS(that i can think of anyway).

sadly, neil is not the only one without a clue about this stuff, I have seen 2 guys do the neil safety approach. both were scolded. one was told if that happens again, he is going to have to go back to school. the other, was the dumbest thing i have ever heard of. he got out, and acted as an on track traffic cop. he stood in front of his formula car and tried to direct guys around the car.
Niel, dont feel to bad;you are not alone in your ignorance.
Sorry to be harsh, but your statements are amazing, but also typical, and why i didnt like HPDE. guys dont really have much of a clue about many things.
 

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I would also get out if the car was stalled in the racing line... that's called sitting duck. It all depends on the situation I guess.

Neil
Seating duck with car protecting you. If you are getting out of the car or in process of getting out of the car if someone hit you than you are toast.

Please stay in the car, in that situation.:no:
 

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google "target fixation"

you exit the car, you become a distraction (target) to the other drivers, even under yellow. the human mind is attracted to targets.

you do not want to be a fleshy target.
 

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If he wasn't sure if he could make the turn, why didn't he just go straight off the track instead of trying to force it and having to lift off the throttle causing the spin? Looks like he had room. That would have avoided tagging the other car.
Here's another thought, maybe he wasn't looking far enough ahead to see that the turn was alot longer/sharper than he thought. He might have just been following the guy in front of him without realizing it.
 

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NO EXCEPTIONS(that i can think of anyway).
I can think of a couple. But I see your point.

LoL... don't worry Fish I can take it. I suppose you are right in the way I wrote the above. I don't know if I would go as far as saying stay off the track, but hey, I kinda see your point. Again, from experience, I know what the rules are but sometimes there are situations that call for breaking the rules, it may save your life and someone else's... (Again, in special circumstances)

That being said, there are rules for reasons and everyone should respect them to their best. ... there, does that sound better?

Sorry to have offended some of you track Gods ;) (this is me joking of course)

Neil
 

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If he wasn't sure if he could make the turn, why didn't he just go straight off the track instead of trying to force it and having to lift off the throttle causing the spin? Looks like he had room. That would have avoided tagging the other car.
From the rest of the driving shown I strongly suspect it never entered his mind that he might not make it. I strongly suspect he just doesn't have experience near the limit of the vehicle yet.

His hand movements give no indication of being prepared for the tail to come out at all. His reaction movements as the tail does come around appear to be those of suprise. That's probably exactly how I looked during my first spin on my first ever on-track experience.

It appears to be just a warm-up lap or something. I don't think his brakes would be any warmer than having just cruised down the highway for an hour. He's mostly just using engine braking before the turns.

xtn
 

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It would appear that he was a beginner in a VERY crowded environment. Most of this lines didn't make a whole lot of sense, and leading to the spin, he hd a clear shot at the apex but just didn't turn (like he was unfamiliar with the very off-camber and tightness of the turn).

Getting out of the car is really bad, but he WAS way off in the boonies. I consider that less of a sin in this case.

Getting out of a car on the racing line IS a sin though, as Fishy said. Even when close to the line.

However, in this case, I actually feel very confident that the driver was way away from an impact zone and may well have had knowledge that all the cars had gone past.

Steve
 

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I have been organizing and instructing at events for about ten years. The idea about not putting the e-brake on or getting out of the car should be discussed at the drivers meeting.

I always explain WHY one should not put their e-brake on . . . it usually sinks in. Our instructors also know to watch out for it and tell their students not to pull the brake.

We also always explain WHY you stay in the car unless it's on fire. I would rather have a mangled car than a mangled body. And a car can be replaced far less painfully than body parts. That might sound morbid, but sometimes folks need to hear the truth before they will really listen.

Speaking of getting out of the car . . . on a lighter note . . . this one will probably make ya laugh. A few years ago we put on an event at Thunderhill. One of our novice drivers, a nervous older man with a Corvette, stopped his car on the right hand side of the track. He not only got out of the car, but he CROSSED THE HOT TRACK to ask the corner worker where the exit was. The exit was just around the corner from where he was stopped. That will teach him to wait for his instructor before going out onto the track. ;) He has not been back to the track since. That is one for the history books, for sure. If Alan C. ("Loki") is viewing this thread, I bet he remembers. :D
 

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Again, from experience, I know what the rules are but sometimes there are situations that call for breaking the rules, it may save your life and someone else's... (Again, in special circumstances)
Again, not trying to attack anyone, but this to me sounds like one of those 'If the dude had been wearing his seatbelt then the pipe from the car in front of him would have went through his head' type of things. That doesn't mean that YOU shouldn't wear your seatbelt when you are driving.

Is there some kind of strange and weired circumstance where it would have been better if someone did get out of their car on the track instead of sitting in their car, with their helmet on and their belts buckled? Possibly.

But, given the odds, the only time I would EVER get out of my car on a hot track would be when it was when the car was on fire. Period. End of story. No exceptions. Ever.

What was the experience that led you to say that 'in special circumstances' it would be OK to get out of your car on a hot track? I'm really curious.
 
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