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Discussion Starter #3
That poor person in the PT Cruiser! (I never thought I'd feel remourse for a PT Cruiser driver)
 

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Damn, that's disturbing.

I do wonder about the PT driver, though. Why didn't they at least GTF out of there?

Me, I'd have run him over thrice and slept well at night.
 

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He'd a been a greasy spot on the road and I'd have had a busted Lotus. I'd slap run him over and worry about the plight of urban americans later.

So let me get this straight the guy videotapes the crime, how long before he was arrested. Certainly not a rocket scientist there.
Chris
A poster child for Glock 9mm if ever their was one.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I agree Chris. I really wish the guy in the car had unloaded on him.
 

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We've got Concealed Carry here in KY and I generally have something deadly around - usually one in my brief case - BUT after taking the C.C. course I know I wouldn't shoot him - run him over maybe. Shooting would probably not be a proportional response in court - he was not threatening my life, just my property. I might accidently run his ass over trying to get away and then I'd probably be up for some kind of manslaughter. After taking the C.C. course the lawer stuff impressed on me that when I fired my gun (or pointed it at somebody as a threat), if not on a firing range, I'd then be called 'the defendant" by definition from that point forward - in other words I'd be in court - it impressed the CRAP out of me. If I have to point it at someone I'm doing it to pull the trigger, and not aiming to wound.

An aside, they tell you to NOT let your friend who is with you, for example, know you have a C.C. weapon on you. Because if, for example, you're in the 7-11 and there's a gunman robbing the place your dumbass friend might say that you have a gun on you and to STOP HIM which could cause a BIG problem for you - just let them steal the other guy's crap as long as it's not an imminent death situation for him or you.

This video really pisses me off and it makes it hard to be overly sympathetic to the local Cincinnati racial profiling / black boycott problems.
 

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cerven said:
BUT after taking the C.C. course I know I wouldn't shoot him - run him over maybe. Shooting would probably not be a proportional response in court - he was not threatening my life, just my property. I might accidently run his ass over trying to get away and then I'd probably be up for some kind of manslaughter.
Maybe you watched a different thug video than I did.

If some guy is going nonlinear with a tire iron, raving lunatic all over the car, destroying windows and screaming threats, I think you would have every reason to believe your life was in immediate mortal danger, and that you were being threatened with lethal force and intent to harm. A lethal response would be totally justified, and I think you would have a hard time finding 12 peers who would watch the video and disagree.

As the saying goes, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.
 

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If you shot him, you may be charged with second degree murder and get 10 years+.

If you run him over, you may be charged with vehicular man-slaughter and get 5 years +.

But if you run him over and say you were drunk, you'll get a few hours of community service.:D
 

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Allan Gibbs said:
If you shot him, you may be charged with second degree murder and get 10 years+.

If you run him over, you may be charged with vehicular man-slaughter and get 5 years +.

But if you run him over and say you were drunk, you'll get a few hours of community service.:D
...if you run him over and say that you were on PCP and the voices in your head told you to do it, you get a 1 year+ worry free stay at your local luxurious mental institution :p
 

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I disagree with the not being able to shoot him. This person is obviously out of control and could be dusting which causes tremendous rage and makes them totally unpredictable. The fact that he was brandishing and using a weapon the way he was, I think deadly force could have been justified, he was only a matter of inches away and could have easily hit the driver with the iron. Certainly wouldn't have a lot of time to make the decision, but better to be alive in court and have a dead perp.

Chris
 

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Ground Loop - I saw him attacking the car, not necessarily the people within - he never went after the people in the car even after the window was broken out or tried to get in the car. I think a jury would put you away if you shot him. Me, I'd be watching your trial on court TV.;)
 

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The link has indeed crapped out - I downloaded it but cannot host it unfortunately - 4.85mb - maybe someone else has it or I'll email the vid to someone.
 

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cerven said:
Ground Loop - I saw him attacking the car, not necessarily the people within - he never went after the people in the car even after the window was broken out or tried to get in the car. I think a jury would put you away if you shot him. Me, I'd be watching your trial on court TV.;)
It's easy to make that distinction after watching the whole event, but as a victim in the car, I wouldn't be position to know the attackers intent. You'd have to make a reasonable estimate of the attacker's threat, and fast. There was enough violence and directed threat that I think anyone would fear for their safety. Anyone. In fact, the first time I watched the video, I really thought there was bodily harm coming. He was, after all, just bragging about being a murderer, was he not?

Totally unprovoked violent attacks like that are really hard to react to rationally. It's probably worth the exercise of thinking about it beforehand. Sounds like we've reached different conclusions. I'm okay with that.
 

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Ground Loop - I'm OK with that too. But know that I'm well trained to defend myself and won't hesitate to protect myself or family (or you either)with deadly force.
 

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Cerven,

So is that your picture at the range on your avatar? I was wondering about that.

Anyway, when I took the CC course here in Alaska, they talked about Jeopardy, Ability and Means. If someone is swinging a tire iron, they definately have Ability and Means, so all I have to prove is that I legitimately felt that my or someone else's life was in Jeopardy. Then it becomes justifiable.

Also, since an able bodied person can cover about 21 feet in the time it takes to draw and shoot, that is about the reasonable distance for shooting someone with a melee weapon who is threatening you.

By a strange coincidence, the closest the Air Force has us qualify with the 9mm is 7 yards.
 
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