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Discussion Starter #1
Currently running RC5+ pads for street and track but would like more bite. I see Exige cars on the track braking 200' shorter while coming in faster with massive braking compared to my Elise taking twice as long to stop while already coming in to braking at a slowe speed. Currently on R888 tires and will hopefully go to Hoosier R6 next year. I don't care about cost of pads or dust or noise because I will change back to RC5+ after track days but want to know what pads for stock brakes and rotors give the best performance without overpowering my setup.
 

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Carbotechs. XP8 all around, or XP10 front XP8 rear if you prefer front brake bias.

But, even though I hate Carbone Lorraine pads for other reasons (they shower the car with vaporized metal that destroys the paint), I have to wonder if the brake pads are truly the culprit here if your stopping distance is twice that of other comparable cars.

Are you sure you don't have part of your foot on the throttle while you're braking? Been there, done that.
 

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Are you applying maximum braking pressure? You may think you are, but if you turn your car over to an instructor for a session you may find out differently. Been there, done that too.

Or, you may have some air in your brake lines preventing you from reaching maximum braking force.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't think the brakes are bad, because I am way outbreaker Porsche carrera s and Turbo models among others but I am nowhere the modified Lotus cars. I had the brake lines bleed out before this track season and I will do it again this winter. I think I am applying full force because I tried just about shoving my foot through the floor and even when I had the guys from Radium drive my car they said the brakes felt a bit mushy.
I would say pads are about half way worn.
I was looking at the XP12 for front and XP10 for rear for track use. Do I need to resurface the rotors if I do this or do I just put them in?
With the XP12/XP10 setup be to much for my tires and I run the risk of locking them up because I can not lock up my current tires or hit ABS with my current setup no matter how hard I hit the brakes.
 

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Yea something sounds off with your setup. Not sure if the pads are simply over cooking or what. IIRC the RC5+ aren't *that* high temperature tolerant I thought.

I LOVE my Carbotechs. I run XP10 all around but as I get more comfortable and start to trailbrake more I'm sure I would benefit by stepping up to a higher compound up front. I have been a very happy camper thus far with just DBA4000s, Carbotechs, and RBF600. I will likely add ducts and some low heat transfer backing plates and/or pistons in the future once I run on R-comps.

I can tell you while I am "only" running star specs I can most definitely lock up all 4 without totally standing on the brakes. I also don't have any problems with them being too much brake and locking up prematurely. They have GREAT modulation characteristics. Haven't had any issues with them overheating either. While I certainly don't consider myself very good in the braking zones compared to more advanced level drivers I do have to scrub off more speed than most given the power and street tires.

Will be sticking to Carbotech for sure!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Do you have the DBA4000's all around or just on the front?
I think i am on a Standard DOT5 fluid but the brakes were bleed by a race shop and the owner has lots of actual race and track experience with Lotus cars. Next time i will make sure its the RBF stuff.
 

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With the XP12/XP10 setup be to much for my tires and I run the risk of locking them up because I can not lock up my current tires or hit ABS with my current setup no matter how hard I hit the brakes.
XP12 is overkill. That's what you use on 3,500 lb Corvettes, not 2,100 lb Lotii.

Whatever texture your RC5+ pads have carved into your rotors will transfer to the new pads. You may find that annoying (I do). I have DBA 4000s on all 4 corners because the CL6E pads destroyed my OEM rotors after about 500 miles of street driving. You can find pictures of it if you care to look.

I too have no trouble at all engaging ABS at will. That said, I don't run R-comps: I'm clad in Dunlop Direzza Star Spec or Toyo R1R. Can you get ABS to kick in on the street? If you can't get on the ABS on the street, where dust and dirt on the road is a more slippery surface than the track, then something does indeed seem off.
 

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I'm on DBA4000 all around.

I personally would recommend new rotors. Carbotechs work by transferring a layer of pad material to the rotor and you really want to make sure that gets bedded in correctly. With old rotors it may not be quite as effective. Certainly if they were damaged/groved by the last pads.

The good part about Carbotechs is that the base material is the same between the street and race pads so you can swap easily between the two and not have to re-bed. I run XP10s on the track and their street pad (panther plus I think?!) for the street. Just swap them in an out freely.
 

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We run a fair amount of power and race competively in time attack, so can certainly appreciate good brakes!

I like the c-techs just fine, but run the RC6 and RC8 pads. Largely because I can drop them in and go without having to fuss as much with bedding.

Also run better caliper pistons (vented and SS) and our own full-floating rotors.

Put all together and I have no problems bringing the best down to cornering speeds.

The RC5+s are nice mixed use pads, but mixed use is still a compromise on the track. If you want great track braking, then be prepared to swap over to a street pad when not on the esses. Another reason I like the CL pads is the ease in switching compounds--> just a simple swap and go type of deal.

Not a huge fan of any of the DBA rotors with the pillar vane castings. For best cooling, you need directional venting. The kangaroo paw thing they advertise is cute (it's just a pillar vane casting) but an inferior air mover compared to directional curved vanes...

-Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Phil, I will be switching pads for track and street. Rotors had 19k miles before I put on RC5+ pads so changing those and going with the RC6/8 might be a good setup so I am not having bedding issues.

I can get ABS on the street just not the track so looking to get the last bit of power out of the brakes without a BBL.
 

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DSM mentioned that you could do similar with the c-tech above I see. Not sure if they have a street friendly pad or not though.

I think either pad is nice though. Different charecteristics with each. They both wear fairly quickly. The c-techs even faster than the CLs, but both are fairly short pad life...

If using the CLs, start with the 6s and see if you have the bite you're looking for. Generally takes 1 corner to get them up to temp :)

As mentioned, with the techs or CLs, if you hate the pad or compound, it won't be long until the pad is gone so you won't have to wait long to try another :D
 

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Just looked up the Carbotech street pads I have. They are the "Bobcat 1521" series pad.

I have run CLs in the past and had good results. Only thing is bad I can really say is that they are sintered metal pads and so you need to be VERY careful to make sure you get all the brake "dust" off the car right away, or it can pit wheels/paint/etc.

This is my first experience with Ctechs. And so far so good. They are expensive, but from what I hear they have (relatively speaking) good life, and are VERY gentle on rotors... but again not sure what that means in absolute terms. So far I have 3 track days on my XP10s/DBAs. I've been really lazy and haven't swapped my Bobcats back on so I have another maybe 200-300 miles on the street with them as well. I drove the Elise to work today so I'll try to get a guesstimate on pad life when I go back out, but as far as I know there is lots left.
 

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So far nothing's stopped like the Pagid blacks I ran for a few years, they however are murderous on rotors, as well as leaving dust deposits that once exposed to moisture will require a jack hammer to remove from your wheels...
I've since moved over to Carbotech, the XP12's have at least 90 to 95% of the stopping power (via butt dyno) of the blacks, and quess what, two years, and I don't need rotors yet...

They also have XP16 and XP20 compounds now, and I've got a set of the 20's headed my way (most tracks in the PNW have very large elevation changes) so I'm excited to check out the 20's
 

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It means even the XP-10 pads are streetable. The only downside is that your wheels get dusted as quickly as they would if you were on the track.
Right I should have said "quantified".

I agree they actually are streetable, but I'm not sure how long they will last.. like in numbers.

Quick check after work late looks like I didn't make much of a dent in the xp10s. Guessing I have used about ⅓ to ½ of the pad in 3 track days and a few hundred miles. Not bad.

Rotors look damn near new. So that would jive with apex in snow's results of not needing rotors for more than 2 years on his track car!
 

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Right I should have said "quantified".

I agree they actually are streetable, but I'm not sure how long they will last.. like in numbers.
After about 8 track days and 5,000 street miles, i wore away about 4mm of pad from the front XP-10s (60%). The rotors were only very slightly worn. I have to check my notebook, but I think at that point they were worn maybe 0.2mm.

I've since shoved new XP-8 pads in front (running a couple of curvy tracks soon where I prefer less front-bias in the braking) and I'll probably measure the pads with the micrometer at the end of the month.
 

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Quick check after work late looks like I didn't make much of a dent in the xp10s. Guessing I have used about ⅓ to ½ of the pad in 3 track days and a few hundred miles. Not bad.

Rotors look damn near new. So that would jive with apex in snow's results of not needing rotors for more than 2 years on his track car!
Yea, I get about 5 to 6 track days from the 12's, be warned though the last 50% will not last as long as the first 50%, this is true of any pad though.

Keep an extra front set in your track kit, nothing sucks more than having a short day because you ran out of pad...
 

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After about 8 track days and 5,000 street miles, i wore away about 4mm of pad from the front XP-10s (60%). The rotors were only very slightly worn. I have to check my notebook, but I think at that point they were worn maybe 0.2mm.

I've since shoved new XP-8 pads in front (running a couple of curvy tracks soon where I prefer less front-bias in the braking) and I'll probably measure the pads with the micrometer at the end of the month.
Yea, I get about 5 to 6 track days from the 12's, be warned though the last 50% will not last as long as the first 50%, this is true of any pad though.

Keep an extra front set in your track kit, nothing sucks more than having a short day because you ran out of pad...


Very cool thanks for the info. Was always wondering how they would fair in terms of longevity.
 

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If you are not concerned about dust / noise etc, why not run a race compound like the Hawk DTC-60 and call it a day.

In my opinion the Carbotechs are good for people who want the dust to not be black and the pads to be quieter etc etc.

The 60s are a great pad with predictable bite all the way to lockup (threshold braking).

Also, next time you are at the track and are on a straight with nobody behind you, brake as hard as you can (with both feet if you need to) so you really figure out what the maximum braking is and where the threshold is.

-G
 
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