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Discussion Starter #1
First, let me restate my assumptions:

I don't begrudge Lotus from wanting or needing to raise the price. I do take some issue with the way it is being applied.

I think the price increase should only be applied to cars that have not yet had their build order submitted. In all fairness, since the build order is not changable once submitted, it arguably constitutes the final step in making a firm commitment to the purchase of your exact car. If someone has not placed their build order yet then they still have the option to reconsider the options to include accounting for the price increase or to even bail out entirely if they deem it necessary. That said, once the build order has been placed it seems to me that there is a commitment on both sides about the terms of the agreement. I agree to buy this specific car for this specific price...period. If LCU then jacks up the price by $1k, $5k, $10k, or whatever that should mean that they didn't live up to their end of the bargain. It's just not good form to ding customers this late in the process.

I have already placed my build order and I will still hold up my end of the agreement but I cannot stress enough that this has given me a very poor impression of the policies and management of this company. I will be compelled to caution all of the people I will meet when driving this car to be wary of shady business practices when buying a car from this company.

Please understand, I'm not angry about the $1k bump, I'm angry about their choice in how and when it is applied.


Now then... To all of you who have received your car at the original MSRP and who see fit to defend Lotus and their behavior, SPARE US. If you are so concerned with the well being of Lotus as a company or think this is a fair and equitable action on their part then send them the extra $995 first, otherwise your comments will be viewed as hypocritical at best and annoyingly disingenuous at worst. WE KNOW THE CAR IS GOOD AND PROBABLY WORTH THE MONEY. THAT IS NOT THE POINT OKAY? Parading around proudly proclaiming that this is okay or good business is shrill and contrived and you only make the rest of us more pissed off about this...
 

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On the other hand, it also possible that some people are reading way too much into what people with cars are posting.

I agree with the rest of your points.
 

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>>>Please understand, I'm not angry about the $1k bump, I'm angry about their choice in how and when it is applied. <<<

Yes but this sounds shrill to me in turn. Basically you want to renegotiate the sales contract you already signed. Depending upon your date, there may be other price increases and changes. There may also be new options, features, upgrades and the like. It's a moving target sort of thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Stan said:
Basically you want to renegotiate the sales contract you already signed. Depending upon your date, there may be other price increases and changes. There may also be new options, features, upgrades and the like.

Pardon me but that is quite an insult. It was not me but LOTUS that changed the agreed upon price after the deliverable has been defined and locked in. Are you seriously insinuating that I am the one trying to change the contract? Don't confuse yourself, I am not trying to cheat anyone.
 

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jdw,
Sorry, can't spare you. If the discussion has no balance it just turns into a bitch fest. So sorry, you'll have to live with my posts, and I've just as much right to post my opinion as you do yours, I'm not going to parade around in a hairshirt apologizing for the fact that I have my car. Disagree with me as much as you like, but certainly don't muzzle me or anyone else. If my posts are too disingenuous (don't know how to spell) please place me on your ignore list.

Chris
 

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>>>Pardon me but that is quite an insult. It was not me but LOTUS that changed the agreed upon price after the deliverable has been defined and locked in. Are you seriously insinuating that I am the one trying to change the contract? Don't confuse yourself, I am not trying to cheat anyone.<<<

Don't feel insulted, noone is insulting anyone here. At least I am not.

Nearly all of the sales contracts for Elises carry the usual boiler plate. Things like MSRP at the time of delivery phrases are common. All sorts of other outs. Your sales contract is not that strong a contract in terms of your rights and options. What does yours say exactly? Whatever it says, is what the deal is so to speak. That's my point. If your contract says the price is X or MSRP at such and such an event or date then the dealer will have to make up any difference. Our sales contracts are not with Lotus, they are with the dealers who are independent business people. The sales guy you deal with doesn't make all the decisions..the actual dealer and management do. If the sales guy promised something he cannot deliver that is not a Lotus issue in my view.
 

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Stan said:
>>>Please understand, I'm not angry about the $1k bump, I'm angry about their choice in how and when it is applied. <<<

Basically you want to renegotiate the sales contract you already signed. Depending upon your date, there may be other price increases and changes. There may also be new options, features, upgrades and the like. It's a moving target sort of thing.
It's not a moving target and we don't want to renegotiate. I too have placed an order, my car has been built and it's on the way. I'm not going to get a chance to get any new options or features. But suddenly Lotus is telling me that our deal has changed. I ordered the options that I wanted and priced out the car with Lotus' calculator. Seemed like a purchase agreement to me. Now, after the fact, I owe an extra $945 - not very ethical.

Granted that I haven't yet paid for the car, nor did my dealer cost out the car when I placed my order and send me an invoice, so technically I can see how Lotus feels that it can get away with this, but I can't think of other situations where you place an order then get hit with a price increase just before delivery. Sure we can refuse delivery if we don't want to pay the increase, but I doubt that's what Lotus is hoping for.
 

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jdw :bow:

My sentiments exactly. I would not have minded paying the extra $1000 if the announcement was made prior to the "point of no return". In fact, I doubt I would even have changed my order. It is their total lack of respect for me as a customer that I find so infuriating.

jdw5155 said:
First, let me restate my assumptions:

I don't begrudge Lotus from wanting or needing to raise the price. I do take some issue with the way it is being applied.

I think the price increase should only be applied to cars that have not yet had their build order submitted. In all fairness, since the build order is not changable once submitted, it arguably constitutes the final step in making a firm commitment to the purchase of your exact car. If someone has not placed their build order yet then they still have the option to reconsider the options to include accounting for the price increase or to even bail out entirely if they deem it necessary. That said, once the build order has been placed it seems to me that there is a commitment on both sides about the terms of the agreement. I agree to buy this specific car for this specific price...period. If LCU then jacks up the price by $1k, $5k, $10k, or whatever that should mean that they didn't live up to their end of the bargain. It's just not good form to ding customers this late in the process.

I have already placed my build order and I will still hold up my end of the agreement but I cannot stress enough that this has given me a very poor impression of the policies and management of this company. I will be compelled to caution all of the people I will meet when driving this car to be wary of shady business practices when buying a car from this company.

Please understand, I'm not angry about the $1k bump, I'm angry about their choice in how and when it is applied.


Now then... To all of you who have received your car at the original MSRP and who see fit to defend Lotus and their behavior, SPARE US. If you are so concerned with the well being of Lotus as a company or think this is a fair and equitable action on their part then send them the extra $995 first, otherwise your comments will be viewed as hypocritical at best and annoyingly disingenuous at worst. WE KNOW THE CAR IS GOOD AND PROBABLY WORTH THE MONEY. THAT IS NOT THE POINT OKAY? Parading around proudly proclaiming that this is okay or good business is shrill and contrived and you only make the rest of us more pissed off about this...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Stan said:
One more time...what does your written sales contract say? It's that simple, really.
You miss my point. I am prepared to pay the price increase, I will still buy the car, I accept the situation for what it is. However I maintain that while it may be legal it is not the right thing to do and is a very poor strategic decision in the context of customer relations. They are making a PR mistake and the very biggest advocates of their automobile are rapidly becoming some of the most vocal detractors of the company.

Additionally, I wouldn't presume to have a muzzle capable of silencing those who choose to boast of their good luck (or superior inside connections) in the face of other's misfortune. The rude and philistine cannot be expected to be sensitive to others feelings. Chatter on…
 

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It's a little rough

I have/had a deposit since late 2001. Have not stopped talking about the car since the deposit date. I think this is going to be the best thing since sliced bread. My car is either built and in route or in process of being built.

I will buy the car and absorb the price increase.

I am not the happiest customer Lotus has right now and this is the way people feel because it feels like we are being cheated, not appreciated or something to that effect.

I am in a business where I make 10 deals a day and I know you can't make this late decision without atleast offering something in return.

Sales is all perception. A lot of people including myself are perceiving Lotus to be not the nicest, friendliest company right now.

Like I said, I will buy the car, I will enjoy it and I will now shut up.
 

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I really wonder what this situation would have been like w/o a web forum. Imagine walking into your dealer to pick up your car and then finding out the bad news. At least this forum has let alot of people blow off steam and others to explain away currency conversion and profit levels.

Yes I realize the price subject to change boiler plate, but my company eats all kinds of raw material increases for an order in process just to hold a price at what was agreed upon. I would never raise the price after telling a customer that a widget cost $x and how many would you like. I guess the difference is that car buyers for a toy car like this are one time buyers and not repeat buyers.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Oh yeah

...and there is no God. As evidence, a loving and caring God would never let a misfortune like this befall innocent automobile enthusiasts like us. ;)

Of course then again, maybe he spared the early recipients because they were "true believers" and he is now punishing the rest of us heathens.

Okay, maybe not...
 

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Please understand, I'm not angry about the $1k bump, I'm angry about their choice in how and when it is applied


well i'm definitely not happy about the price increase. i'm sure if i had the car already i wouldn't bitch as much. :cool:
 

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I think that the price increase is unfair. The dealers and Lotus have had free money for over a year. You do the math - over 2000 orders with a deposit of $1000 per order. I would love to have just the float on that capital. Remember that the Lotus parent company is a venture capital group. Someone is looking to increase their return
 

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self interests

To the original poster...

What does your contract say? Does it specify a price, as in actual numbers, or does it say MSRP. As far as I know, since the beginning of time, unless otherwise specified, that meant MSRP upon delivery.

If the dealer was committing to an actual price, as in a set dollar amount, that would've been in the contract.

Unless the actual numbers are there, and MSRP is what has been committed, the dealer only needs to deliver a car at MSRP at time of delivery.

That's simply the way it is. You don't like it. I don't like it. But that is the way it is. Lotus, and its dealers, are not doing anything unusual here. That is simply standard practice.

I'm on a list, with deposit, but I won't get a car for a least 2 years, I figure. I was quite off put when another poster somewhere suggested the FAIR thing to do would be to not raise any prices on the 2005 car, but to slap the 2006 car with a $2K increase...ok...let's have the folks on the list offset Lotus' increased costs due to the exchange rate to serve the interests of the folks scheduled to receive their cars sooner.

We're cannabilizing each other here. These are normal, abeit distasteful business practices. If you don't like it, you have the recourse of all consumers...spend your money elsewhere.

In the end, we individually determine the relative value of any purchase.

Only time will tell if the Lotus is worth what's being asked. Folks are ponying up the cash now, with premiums. Who is to say that 3 years from now the American market has determined that the car is just a bit too much of a go cart for the typical American butt used to a softer seat? At that point, the car may have NO resale value, and new cars may sit on the lots.

Nobody knows.

At a grand increase, I don't like it, but I'm hanging in. I anticipate at least two more before I will see a car. If base goes over $45K, I'm out. I love Lotus, have owned several...but I don't desire the Elise that much.
 

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I havent posted too much in this whole debacle. While I do have a car now, and Im VERY thankful I was in under the wire on that one, I also have another car coming so Im affected too.
 

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What Lotus is doing is not atypical. Having ordered 2 previous cars after being on lists for multiple years, I always assumed that the price I'd pay for the Elise (as with previous experiences) would be whatever the MSRP happened to be at the time the sales contract was executed and the car was delivered to me. If the actual price ended up out of my price range, I'd take my deposit and buy something else.

My previous similar experiences were with Mercedes, having purchased one of the first SLK230s in the country (taking delivery in January of 1997) and one of the first SLK32s in the U.S. With the 230, we got our names on a list in 1994 when there was nothing but drawings to get an idea of what the car might look like. Firmer information on the cars and the pricing came in as time went by, but I really never expected to know the final price until the cars were actually in.

I realize there's a lot of frustration due to the fact that many of us waited years for the Elise and have gone through numerous delays. But honestly, the car is worth the money and it seems to me that what Lotus is doing in terms of the price increase is normal business practice. At least most dealers are honoring agreements to sell to folks on their lists at MSRP when we all know they could probably get more. (And yes, that's where I'd draw the line regarding ethical/unethical; I stopped buying from dealers who marked cars up over MSRP years ago.)

I guess my bottom line is: price increases happen; yes, the timing could be much better but the size of the increase also could have been much worse.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I relent.

Kusheen, as the original poster of this thread I surrender.

I don't know if it matters at all in the general conversation to mention that my deposit is non-refundable? Since I plan on getting the car regardless of this event it is an irrelevant point.

The contract I have does state the term "MSRP" in addition to an expected price range, within which this adjustment falls. No big deal. I'm still going to get the car, I will more than likely love it but I thought it would be appropriate to express my opinion to Lotus and the world in as concise, deliberative, and thoughtful a way as I can muster. I'm not trying to rant, bludgeon or repress anyone.

It's also not about the timing; it's about the terms and nature of the increase. I still insist that I believe they are making a consumer relations blunder to change a price after the build order is complete, locked and, as in my case, where the deposit is not refundable. I'm certain it is entirely legal but that still does not make it the honorable thing to do to people who have been, for the most part, very patient. It just looks bad and I would hold this position even if I had not yet submitted my order.

This whole unsavory event has become rather boring now. My horse is dead, the beatings will stop now.
 
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