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Discussion Starter #1
We all have read the rave reviews of the Elise and how the toyota power plant is great. And also with the comment from the 'sharpest tool' article about 'yota taking some of the Lotus changes to their production line one has to wonder if the 2ZZ lump has been vindicated through Lotus.
I've read over and over how it was a finicky engine in the Celica GTS (Lil?) and how it was not a lot of fun in the Corolla. To the point that it was just about relegated to 'great idea but alas not so in reality' bin. However, it is obviously in its element in the Elise and making Toyota look good. Hopefully good enough that the collaboration continues.
 

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Babak,

Yes, I am a bit skeptical about the motor. Toyota and Lotus both say they have fixed the problems and modified the engine to its ultimate potential, but I cant help but be nervous. Is it all marketing hype?

I guess we'll all know for sure after driving these babies for a while.
 

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Modern Wedgie said:
Toyota and Lotus both say they have fixed the problems and modified the engine to its ultimate potential....
What type of problems? :confused:
 

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Allan Gibbs said:
What type of problems? :confused:
Oil pump failure at >~g
Cam bolt shearing--second cam wont engage
Shifter problems--2nd and 4th spacing too close, leading to hundreds of engine/transmission blowups

Just to name a few. Supposedly all fixed as of 2002.
 

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Modern Wedgie said:
Supposedly all fixed as of 2002.
Hey, thanks for the reminder. I maybe getting old, but not devoid of all common sense. Perhaps I've become a bit too infected with your enthusiasm kiddo.

<b>They never really told you HOW they fixed these problems, did they? They promised you they were fixed didn't they? Is that a promise like the one where they promised you that you really are number 11? </b>

If they've fixed the engine, for instnce, why haven't they announced their oil starvation fix it to the world, with a cut-away view of their new, improved, highly visible (no-longer-glass-) engine? Is there now baffling or a special oil pump sump or something else -- or not?

Toyota and Lotus have been keeping their cards entirely too close to their vests. Why?

They promise us its all fixed, but what have they done to demonstrate that?

They would rather -- er -- leave us baffled instead?

In fact, if they don't clear the air on this, I may very well back out! And I bet I'm not alone in these doubts. We are taking a big chance that they've fixed all these problems. Is everyone gonna be happy with fixes like the one they used to "fix" that shifter probem in your GTS?

Yes, why don't you tell everybody, Lil, about THAT affront to engineering and performance?
 

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Ancient Wedgie said:
Is everyone gonna be happy with fixes like the one they used to "fix" that shifter probem in your GTS?

Yes, why don't you tell everybody, Lil, about THAT affront to engineering and performance?
Just as a comparison, this is the angle of the shifter before. This is a TRD ss install, so of course the stock is longer. I'm just using this image so you can see the comparison with the stock shifter angle in neutral and the "fixed" shifter angle that Toyota fitted to the celica.

Before "fix"
 

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Essentially, 1st gear was slightly right of center, and everything was shifted over. 5th and 6th were almost impossible to reach, and it was very hard to downshift correctly. I thought the "fix" was more likely to cause misshifts than the orginal shifter.

Now the 02 cars dont have a crooked shifter. They must have changed the linkage or something. But this was the "solution" that toyota came up with to repair the 00 and 01 cars.
 

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Modern Wedgie said:

Now the 02 cars dont have a crooked shifter. They <s>must</s> [may] have changed the linkage or something.
OTOH, you never had a problem with shifting until <i>after</i> they replaced your first engine. Which could simply mean that it all depends upon installation, could it not?

Why isn't there a risk analyst around when we need one?

I think we still need a better explanation as to why a shifter could work swell for 3 years and then could cause an engine to blow-up after some mechanic-in-training was permitted to mate your tranny to the swapped engine. Why was engine-tranny-shifter alignment an issue to begin with? And is it still an issue even with the 02s and later? Sadly, could it not simply be a matter of time?
 

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Ancient Wedgie said:
OTOH, you never had a problem with shifting until <i>after</i> they replaced your first engine. Which could simply mean that it all depends upon installation, could it not?
Others who did not have engine swaps had the same shifter problem. Check out www.newcelica.org for example. The shifter could have failed at 2000 miles, or in my case, 52000 miles. Yes, it was only a matter of time. Sadly, though Toyota is obviously aware of the problem, they refuse to have a recall. Its cheaper for them to replace motors/trannys I guess. I hate to buy a used one out of warranty, then have the shifter go out! Scary thought!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That's just it. Toyota may get street credibility through a good performance of a previously troubled engine in the Elise.
 
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