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Might be old news to the connected folks here, but I just saw this:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040716/laf003_1.html
Toyota to Discontinue Production of the Celica and MR2 Sports Cars by the End of 2005 Model Year
Friday July 16, 12:00 pm ET
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"The past few years, however, have been very challenging for both Celica and MR2 as competition in a segment where 'what's new' dominates and we continue to add more exciting and youthful products to the lineup such as the Matrix and Corolla XRS, Solara sports coupe and recently the Scion xA, xB and tC."
I can't imagine the tC is detouring many MR2 shoppers, but that's marketing for you.
 

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shay2nak
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i'm sure the Celica will be available in Asia and other parts. I think Toyota is only discontinuing both cars in the North American market.
 

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Toyota might be the most lame car company after they do this. They will officially have 0 cool cars under their belts. If toyota was smart, they would create a new supra for competition with the 350z, and redesign the mr2 spyder instead of discontinuing it. Honda has the S2000, nissan has the 350z, ford will have the new mustang, chevy has the new vette, mazda has... well pretty much all of mazda's cars are cool and sporty, and Toyota has... the scion TC YAY!!!!!!!

How lame can a car company get...

-Whit
 

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zcar222 said:
Toyota might be the most lame car company after they do this. They will officially have 0 cool cars under their belts. If toyota was smart, they would create a new supra for competition with the 350z, and redesign the mr2 spyder instead of discontinuing it. Honda has the S200, nissan has the 350z, ford will have the new mustang, chevy has the new vette, mazda has... well pretty much all of mazda's cars are cool and sporty, and Toyota has... the scion TC YAY!!!!!!!

How lame can a car company get...

-Whit
You know the funny thing is everyone agrees with this assertion. Yet for as much as we would like to discount Toyota, their sales numbers continue to groq as well as their market share. I saw an interview with the NA CEO, and he countered this point by saying, "we are aware that we sell vanilla. But you know what the most popular flavor of ice cream is? Vanilla."


I would love to see the Toyota make something exciting, but the Tc is as exciting as it gets. The Supra didn't sell well and was expensive when it was released. Toyota has a luxery brand in Lexus, so they already haev a marketing tool to raise the image of their brand. If they have decided to go the "vanilla" route, at least give us some way to improve the perfromance of their engines through TRD.
:rolleyes:
 

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With so many Vanilla people in the market place today, Toyota should do just fine. At least until they decide they want Strawberry. ;)
 

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Allan Gibbs said:
With so many Vanilla people in the market place today, Toyota should do just fine. At least until they decide they want Strawberry. ;)
It's all about "Deep Dish Apple Pie" :) Or maybe "Phish Food" :)

It used to be "Bovinity Devinity", but I can't find it anymore :(
 

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Mean TT said:

The Supra didn't sell well and was expensive when it was released.
The Supra like it's competitors didn't sell well because they arrived at a time when SUV's were the dominant market and sport cars were fading. Thus the cancellation of the 300Z, RX-7, 3000GT, and the Supra. Now it's been revitalized and has proven to be a successful market now. A new Supra will emerge I can almost guarentee that. The MR-2 surprises me. Toyota has always made great cars that lasted. They've never really been one for a lot of flash. The Supra and current Celica are as creative as they get.
 

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Maybe if Toyota had even the slightest concept of how to style a decent car design the celica and mr2 would sell better - they are both butt ugly, good ridance to the lot of them! hopefull they will rework the concepts and replace them with something thats at least not as ugly as a new BMW..... I have never been able to figure out why Toyota can not produce decent styling (lately).
 

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Most of the time the Supra actually sold fairly well. It was a bit overpriced, but that was not the terrible sin.

For a single year, toyota decided in their infinite wisdom. "Americans only like automatics."

For two years those cars sat in dealerships going NOWHERE fast.

Thats where the lack of sales came from, automatics, bad autos too!
 

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Some history here-

Toyota developed some very cool cars. The Supra and MR2 became very expensive due mainly to the exchange rates in the mid 90s. Sales plummeted, yet the sales of Camrys and Corollas did very well.

The Supra and MR2 were to some extent a market dead end. After someone buys a Supra or MR2, do they trade it on another Toyota? Or do they swim upstream to an Acura/Honda, BMW, or whatever?

With very little revenue from supporting the MR2/Supra, Toyota turned it's attention back to it's bread and butter. And that is the wonder bread sales from it's Camry and the like. But they determined they had a problem. Their main competitor was Honda and Honda was making major inroads. Why? Because kids liked Hondas and when kids traded in the Civics and CRXs, they bought Preludes and Accords or maybe even Pilots or NSXes.

There was no youth magnet for the Toyota. Youth were not buying the $36,000 MR2 Turbo, nor the $54,000 TT Supra. Just more well-to-do old guys.

So what to do? Develop a line of cars that screamed YOUTH and see if you can attract that market back. Fight back at Honda at their own game. So which cars? Maybe a quirky styled roadster with removable plastic body panels and the ability to easily upgrade, which those kids like to do. With a lot of support from TRD, it would be the ultimate rice machine. And hey, maybe that new Matrix is funky enough. There was a third car, not sure what it was now.

These three cars were the focus of a huge marketing campaign by Toyota. This program was called GENESIS. They tried to distance themselves from TOYOTA. There was a new website called "IsthisToyota.Com" and why call it that? To show "this was not your father's Camry." Well alrighty. They hired Satchi and Satchi to work with Toyota Racing Development for this new "hip" marketing campaign. The people involved all had piercings and died hair. We will totally associate ourselves as hip.

And TRD worked with the MR2 Club to arrange a track day to shoot the first commercial.

http://www.cpdserver.com/conecam/video/misc/spydersinthedesert-part1.mov

http://www.cpdserver.com/conecam/video/misc/spydersinthedesert-part2.mov

That is me in the start of part two and in the blue car. :) Along with some other old farts. Where was the youth????

Going Hollywood-


We spent some time with people involved in the project and it was the intent relayed to me, that this was going to capture the youth market.

But what we saw, was that this attempt failed. They sold as many cars as they planned on (~5k/yr) but not to the youth. To older people. TRD support never happened as they planned, since most of the buyers were not going to be putting on body kits and slapping turbos on.

Fast forward a couple years, and the plan did not die. But it changed. They created a new company. No longer was "IsThisToyota" being used... because it was not Toyota, it was SCION. And you want quirky styling and hip? No problem. Look at the xB. The press and trade shows SCREAMED youth. The people working the trade shows were all young and hip and wearing stuff like skating clothes and beahwear. And it's been somewhat successful. Youth seems to like inexpensive. Go figure. :)

So, that left the Spyder hanging out there, addressing a small market. If the Spyder was not a flagship car like that NSX that provides a marketing value (you hardly ever see the Spyder as promotional from Toyota and it's not even shown much at trade shows), then what was it? Not a draw for the youth. Not selling enough to keep it on the financial radar. Not a marketing flagship/icon.

The future for the company was in Prius, in hybrids and commodity cars. And in trucks/SUVs. And in the youth... in SCION.
 

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There is a good book I read within the last year called "The Toyota Way." It was very informative, and while it details the evolution of the assemble line with things such as JIT inventory and the role of labor in the company, it also highlights the desire to make repeat buyers and create repeat customers that will ADVERTISE for the company. It was a very interesting read, and while I know it is a little off topic, the book did stress the desire of Toyota to appeal to everyone. The creation of Lexus was a big controversy at the time. Now Toyota has a leading passenger car segment, as well as a leading luxury car segment. Time will tell of the Scion will be successful, although I agree with the previous post. It seems as though Toyota is dividing its company up into three parts, Luxery, Passenger cars (read vanilla) and a Youth/Sport market. As long as there is research for performance oriented products, I can't complain. However, it seems as though Toyota is giving up on the 2ZZ-GE engine, and mow the decision to let Lotus use it is even more clear. That puts us all in a figuritive pickle so to speak, and with no one releasing any Dyno plots for the Elise, and the dyno plots available derived from the Celica (front mount intercooler) we all really have no idea what the future for performance increases for the Elise will really produce.:rolleyes:
 

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hermanslotus said:
If this is true you won't see any hi po parts for the Celica GTS engines from TRD. Wouldn't work on our Elise's anyway.

Mitch
The 2ZZ is already in the Matrix XRS will be in the Corolla XRS for 2005.

Also, rumor has it that TRD will be coming out with a supercharger for the 2ZZ. I know that is an old rumor, but the new rumor has boost and HP numbers.
 

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aletes said:
The 2ZZ is already in the Matrix XRS will be in the Corolla XRS for 2005.

Also, rumor has it that TRD will be coming out with a supercharger for the 2ZZ. I know that is an old rumor, but the new rumor has boost and HP numbers.
well, toyota hasn't entirely given up on the 2zz as it is both the cars mentioned above. If it were, that would be kind of scary IMO. Installing an Elise with a "discontinued" toyota engine might not sound too appealing to a lot of enthusiasts. On top of this, if toyota were to discontinue the 2zz, it would most probably mean that any further research & development to extract more power out of the engine (via TRD) would stop.

aletes

what are the boost & HP numbers of the new rumors. I don't think we've read those here.


ara
 

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Its also in the performance version of the Pontiac Vibe. I think it has a little life left, unless they come out with a new an improved motor that has a different block or head or hard points.

Greg
 

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I can't see how they'd discontinue that motor, it's too good and too new. They'll find another home for it in a sporty vehicle. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Scion tC sport the 2ZZ at some point.
 

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MattG said:
I can't see how they'd discontinue that motor, it's too good and too new. They'll find another home for it in a sporty vehicle. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Scion tC sport the 2ZZ at some point.
Not sure about the tC. The engine in the tC was chosen specifically for its torque. Any additional power will likely come from a supercharger.
 
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