Toyota is refusing to sell the 6spd? All Elises will be in automtic now?

Look, when it comes down to it there ARE places in america which serve great beer. If you are in DC you have to try the Brickskeller. They have some 400 different beers available (though nothing ontap most of the time.) You can go there over and over and over and never have the same thing twice.

Of course if you dont want to have to go to a place to drink, then its even easier! Just homebrew. For about 150 bucks you can buy yourself a deluxe kit with 2 glass carboys, cleaners, hosing bottlers etc and start brewing. You could actually start with a 60 dollar kit and do just fine also! Maybe you wont be able to lager, but any ale will do just fine.

I have a kegging system, so I dont even need to bother with bottles, though they are convenient at a party.

I have made meads, ales, ciders, and will eventually try a wine.

For about 30 bucks you can make 5 gallons of exactly what your heart desires. Figure 45-60 days from start to drinking.


Oh and, no, I will not be adding a beer tap into the elise

Scot

wallabyguy said:

Lotus needs to sell Elise in order to survive (at least as a car manufacturer). Historically sales have dropped for the Elise, even with it's limited quanities.

Click to expand...

Umm.. No? The initial S1 production was scheduled for about 600 cars a year. And this was exceeded to an extreme of selling almost 3000 annually at the end.

The 'problem', however is that when the S2 was introduced with a more realistic 3000 to 3500 a year production number a few things happened:

- production got off to a slow start. Many teething problems with road approval and materials. This meant that demand was high, but only 1000 or so cars were actually built that year...

- dot-com bubble burst, so much less buyers for a 'toy' car. (add our car-taxes in europe and these are expensive little cars!)

Nowadays the Elise is doing OK considereing the bad economic situation here.

In fact, if not for the VX220/ Speedster, Lotus would have had been in trouble because of access capability.

Click to expand...

The Speedster/VX deal gave lotus cars a lot of money up front because this was a closed deal. They would build the Vx/Speedster in fixed number for a fixed time and got a bag of money.

The Speedster/VX itself has been a resounding failure when it comes to sales numbers, but then again it never was meant to be a big seller, just an 'image bulding' excersise for GM.

The bag of money gave lotus the possibility of building the new factory with the 10.000 unit/year capacity.

But the main reason for the Elise going to the US is not the VX/Speedster, but the cancellation of the M250 and the end of the Esprit production.

They simply don't have eny other models left to sell in the US.

The US elise is basically a 'test bed' for the M260 and new Esprit introduction in the USA, so they can get a feel or the market and see the hurdles to take with regulations and such.

Variations of the car and the line will be what keeps Lotus alive in the future.

Click to expand...

Correct, but don't fotget one thing...

When comparing it to boxters, MR2's etc. etc. you also have to look at the amounts these cars sell in.

These cars sell in tens to hundred of thousands each year.

The US Elise is only supposed to sell around 3 to 5000 a year. I can't imagine that with a US population of 140-million or so (am I correct? even more these days?) there won't be enough buyers every year even when they never change it again.

The Lotus factory capacity is only about 10 to 15000 cars a year and this should be split among 3 models soon:

- All Elises and derivatives (eg. Exige)
- M260's (aka. boxter sized GT)
- Esprit replacement (V8 supercar bla-bla-bla)

That's it.. Lotus will do fine if they can max this out.

The M260 should be much more of a 'regular' car and I would not be surprised to see slushboxed versions of these. These won't be real back-to-basics sportscars like Elise, but much more Grand-Touring (GT) style cars to cover great distances at high speed in comfort.

BTW.. Real sequential boxes (not these abominations like BMW's SMG or ferrari paddle-shifts) are available from Quaife for the Elise. Cost is significant though.. Around $15000 for the box or so..

I sincerely hope that Lotus doesn't allow the Elise to become something it isn't and never was meant to be: a comfortable normal car that's on the wish-list of 'joe public'..

It was designed for the 'car nut' and should reallyremain that way because that's it's niche market and selling point.

Bye, Arno.

Arno,

All of the things you mentioned regarding the slow start of the S2 model are correct. It doesn't however change the fact that the Elise is Lotus Cars (not engineering ) main source of income. Yes Lotus is planning other models, as I stated before, however knowing the way that Proton has handled them in the past, if the Elise was to suddenly tank, you'd see the money pulled. Fortunetly, Proton has committed the funds to the intial engineering studies on both the 260 and new Esprit and both should be shown in show version within the next 2 years or so. This is some insurance that won't happen but in no ways a lock. Lotus has abandon the US market before (1981-83), and would do it again if it found the hassle too much.

Regardless of how they are selling, and they are selling very poorly btw, the VX220 has compensated for the drop in demand for the Elise. The S1 was designed for 700 units per year while still under ownership of Artoli. His expectations for the car and the company were quite different than the current ownership. That car was designed to pull in profit at much lower numbers than the current car, just as you stated.

The MR2 and S2000, both cometition for the Elise, don't sell in the 10's of thousands in the US but actually closer to the 5000 units you mentioned for the Elise. Worldwide those cars sell over 10,000 I'm sure but not here. Speaking to a client who owns a Toyota Dealership, his understanding is that the MR2 Spyder is imported into the US at a rate of 3500-4500 per year. Based on the resale values of the car, I can believe that.

I agree, the M260 will be more of a GT and will likely get some form of slush box. What do you think of Audi's unit that they are using on the TT? It is certainly different from the other mentioned up to now.