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Discussion Starter #1
has anyone researched this already. I want to find out how much each of these units weigh. Doeas anyone already have this information?
I know the Honda engine is not in the running but I am seriously considering the conversion.
Thanks all!
 

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Don't know about the Toyota, but I know the Honda engine & bits required to make it run make the car weigh in at about 30 lbs more than the stock (Rover equipped) Elise.
 

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Just came across these stats the other day:

Code:
Engine Code      From           Weight (lbs)
-----------------------------------------
K20A:            RSX Type-R     275
F20A:            S2000          281  (don't know if this is diff from the F20C)
Rover K Series:  OG Elise       189
Rover K VVTA:    Elise 111S     206 ? unofficial based on the head weight delta 
2ZZ-GE:          Celica GTS     246 (Toyota headers and intake) 
Renesis:         RX8            275
 

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One thing should be mentioned here, in the interests of... uhh... something. ;)

I'm fairly certain that the Honda motors did not have the headers attached when they were weighed. The Toyota appears to have the TDR header installed - so it might be an even bigger difference than listed. According to the RX8 people, the F20C (S2000 motor) weighs 326:

Code:
                                Renesis Specs    F20C Specs
Dressed Weight (lbs)            273              326
Max Power (hp)                  260 @ 8,500 rpm  250 @ 8,300 rpm
Power/Weight (hp/lbs)           0.95             0.77
Specific Power (hp/lbs/1000rpm) 0.112            0.092
Max Torque                      159 @ 5,500      153 @ 7,500
Torque/Weight (ft-lbs/lbs)      0.58             0.47
(Not trying to say that the Renesis motor is the best choice for the Elise - this is just the way the data appeared on the RX8 forum).
 

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George_vts said:
So do we know how much roughly a Vtec engine conversion costs? And what companies are offering the conversion?
http://www.prototyperacing.com

roughly $15K for turn-key conversion. Considerably less for the kit (I forget the figure, but you can e-mail Joe Garthy @ prototype - his e-mail is in the link above).

I'm fairly certain that Joe is the only person in the world fabricating the kit (I could be wrong) - anyone else that is selling the kit is selling his kit.
 

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Brian is this kit available in the UK mate? Just looking at the possibilites of buying a salvaged Elise, preferably with a knackered engine and paying out for the conversion. I like the Vtec engine and the idea of nice screaming power.

I am sure there are other conversions on the market, and I know of the S/C route, which is a good one but I think if I could get the honda lump installed for a bit less than that I may be very interested.

Cheers again
George :)
 

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Thanks for the links. That is quite expensive though. It maybe worth S/C'ing an Elise instead. £10k is a fair bit of money.

Has anyone driven or heard anything about the Turbo Technics conversion on an Elise? What power it makes, costs etc?

Thanks again.
 

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I read an article on the turbo technics modifications. Someone posted a link to a Import tuner mag. I believe it was done on a Matrix or Celica. It looked quite extensive. IIRC it put down 232hp at the wheels. I'm not sure we could fit an intercooler in the Elise. A supercharger nestled in the intake manifold might be more feasable.
 

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Well, now that the RX8 has been dyno'd, the Renesis is only pumping out 220 HP at the crank. The revised power-weight ratios are as follows:

Renesis F20C
220/273 = .805 240/326 = .736
 

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The latest "believe it or not" explanation is that the ECU gets cranky if it's not getting a signal that the front wheels are rolling, and enriches the fuel mixture to cut power.

Therefore, you can't get a valid measurement on a 2-wheel dyno.

However, people running accelerometer based dyno software claim results that match the 2-wheel dyno results. A 4-wheel matched-speed dyno should be forthcoming.

Combine that with an announcement from Mazda that they detuned the engine at the last minute to prolong the catalytic converter lifespan. Thus, according to them, the change from 247 to 238HP.
 

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BrianK said:
http://www.prototyperacing.com

roughly $15K for turn-key conversion. Considerably less for the kit (I forget the figure, but you can e-mail Joe Garthy @ prototype - his e-mail is in the link above).

I'm fairly certain that Joe is the only person in the world fabricating the kit (I could be wrong) - anyone else that is selling the kit is selling his kit.
There are a lot of people on seloc that would argue with you. There are a couple of companies in europe doing Honda conversions that have little or nothing to do with Joe - I suggest you look around on www.seloc.org for more information because Joe and some of the other vendors got into a bit of an argument over who came up with the idea, how the conversions are done etc. I'd rather stay out of that.

I have no connection with any of the vendors involved....

Craigy
 

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Not to mention the question of whether it's the best conversion after all....

I mean, so far I know of these conversions:

Ford Duratec normally aspirated 170bhp (and above - this is quite a new conversion but the engine gives a lot more than 170bhp in race trim)
Honda K20A/K20A2 - 200/220bhp (about 200bhp with no mods, more if JDM spec etc)
Rover 1.8 normally aspirated - 220bhp (heavily modded)
Rover 1.8 supercharged (190, 230bhp Turbo Technics)
Audi 1.8 turbo - 250bhp or 300bhp (different states of tune are available)
Huyabusa 1.5 turbo - 300bhp (I think this was a one-off; how deep are your pockets?)
Alfa 3.0 V6 normally aspirated - 250bhp (italian company I forget the name of)
Rover 1.4 Turbo - 300bhp (another one-off I believe)
Audi 3.7 V6 twin turbo - 420bhp (brandes-duschdow' esthi)

I also hear rumours of a small V8 made of a couple of bike engines though I've not seen any proof of that.

The Audi conversion is getting a lot of good reviews here despite being a spare-time project by an enthusiast (albeit one with a great toolshop and lots of engineering knowledge). It also looks like being one of the cheaper ones - Bernard recons on £7,500 for his kit, whereas the honda conversions I've seen are more like £12,000. (that makes the honda conversion approx. $US22K equivalent in the UK)...

The Duratec conversion is also getting good reviews, and is being developed by some pretty good people too - the guys behind nitron dampers as well as some other luminaries of the elise scene in the UK.

I assume there are other conversions out there - but if there are, I can't think of them right now ;)

Craigy
 

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wow, i can't believe the rover engine was that light! That means we'll have to remove an additional 57lbs from different parts of the car.
 

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shay2nak said:
wow, i can't believe the rover engine was that light! That means we'll have to remove an additional 57lbs from different parts of the car.
Don't forget the gearbox too.

The Rover PG-1 gearbox may sound like a bag of spanners most of the time, but it is very light as well.

AFAIK is the Rover 1.8 K-series + gearbox still by far the lightest combo available on the market today.

The other engines (eg. the Honda) do have an advantage though in that they can be mounted lower and a little more forward in the chassis, which improves the CoG, even though they are a bit heavier.

Bye, Arno.
 

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Ruediger said:
See:
http://www.motorbau.de

(It `s in German but you see plenty of pictures and it `s basically a Yamaha engine , too.:D )
Funnily enough, that's not the one I heard the rumour about (which was 2x stroked huyabusa engines: 3L V8). The one I am thinking of was by some company on the south coast of England - Dorset I think.

I'll dig around and try to find a link.

ps. That site has some very nice pics!

Craigy
 
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