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I am currently running Rc5+ pads and they just don't seem to bite enough(can't hit ABS no matter how hard I press) I'm running R888s and have a set of R6 tires in the garage. Still running stock rotors.

Thinking about XP12 front and XP10 rear is this to aggressive or should I go with the XP10 front and XP8 rear?
Possibly upgrading to Disc Noir or sector 111 two piece rotors for the front.

Let me know your thoughts on best bang for your track focused buck.
 

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I'm no expert but this works for me so far...........

I started out with Ferodo DS2500's on stock disks, they worked well for AutoX and my novice skills on the track, lots of dust, lots!

As my driving skills improved I had a few instructors tell me I was outgrowing my brakes and when we bought my wife's Elise it had Padgid RS4-2's and I loved them for AutoX, with very little dust.

Just did a track day with Padgid RS4-2's ( Pagid Front Brake Pads, Lotus Brakes - Blackwatch Racing ) on my Exige, with HP slotted Rotors ( BOE Fabrication - Lotus Elise, Exige, and Evora Performance ECM Tuning Products ), and vented stainless pistons ( BOE Fabrication - Lotus Elise, Exige, and Evora Performance ECM Tuning Products ) up front.

Happy with the set up, great grab when I need it, no problem hitting the ABS, very little dust, squeals a little when hot but all race brakes do that. I figure I can upgrade to full floating rotors later as my skills increase and the rotors wear out.
 

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I use CL RC6 in front and RC8 in back and there is still significant front bias. I also use R888s. I recommend trying this setup or if you use carbotech, try XP12 in front and XP 20 in the rear. Lower friction compounds in the rear is just wasting rear tire traction during braking.

Of course it is possible to dial in too much rear bias and make the car dangerous to drive. This won't be an issue with a one step increase in friction coefficient for the rears.
 

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Sector Ultradiscs and CL 6 all around. Next time I'm going to use 6 F/ 8R like jasondew.

SS braided hoses and fancy fluid and prepare for some epic braking, up there with about any streetable car.

Do you drive on street? This level of pads are likely to squeal some. Not always, but hard to predict.
 

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opinions are like....

I also run carbotech pads. been running xp10/xp8, planning to try xp10/xp10, and i'm on non-r rubber. would advise starting out with something other people are running (xp12/xp10, xp10/xp10, xp10/xp8) and see how you like them before going to something off the beaten path.
 

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opinions are like....

I also run carbotech pads. been running xp10/xp8, planning to try xp10/xp10, and i'm on non-r rubber. would advise starting out with something other people are running (xp12/xp10, xp10/xp10, xp10/xp8) and see how you like them before going to something off the beaten path.
I don't like XP10/10 on my Exige because without more front brake bias, the rear ABS sometimes engages when braking hard on a bumpy track and produces ABS freeze (aka ice mode).

ABS freeze is when the brake pedal gets hard, you apply more effort and no additional stopping power is available.

For this reason, I much prefer to run a compound with a slightly lower friction rating on the rear to help avoid triggering the rear ABS.
 

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Maybe consider ditching ABS for the track.
 

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I've been on stock calipers, braided lines and ATE Super Blue brake fluid since 2008. For pads, I've tried Pagid Blue, then Pagid Black, then Raybestos ST43 (favorite so far), then Hawk HT10 (absolute worst). I'm going to try Hawk Blue pads and if I don't like them I will go back to Raybestos.

My recommendation so far is Raybestos.

Bill in Maryland, USA
 

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I don't like XP10/10 on my Exige because without more front brake bias, the rear ABS sometimes engages when braking hard on a bumpy track and produces ABS freeze (aka ice mode).

ABS freeze is when the brake pedal gets hard, you apply more effort and no additional stopping power is available.

For this reason, I much prefer to run a compound with a slightly lower friction rating on the rear to help avoid triggering the rear ABS.
Thanks, i'll keep an eye out for this when i give it a try. There's one place around here where i consistently get the abs lock out, and it makes sense why- you come into a braking zone trying to get the car settled but more often then not there is a decent amount of load on one side, so the car locks out the rears as it assumes if you brake any harder you'll wipe the traction at the rear out completely.
 

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Not touting this as the best setup; but, what I've been running: R888's on LSS; stock rotors; XP8's all the way around. Front ABS comes on for me if I let it.
 

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I've been on stock calipers, braided lines and ATE Super Blue brake fluid since 2008. For pads, I've tried Pagid Blue, then Pagid Black, then Raybestos ST43 (favorite so far), then Hawk HT10 (absolute worst). I'm going to try Hawk Blue pads and if I don't like them I will go back to Raybestos.



My recommendation so far is Raybestos.



Bill in Maryland, USA

I've used Hawk Blues on my Miata. One of the best feeling pads I've ever used. Also one of the most corrosive, dusty pads I've ever used.
Did a track day in the rain. Once the dust gets wet it basically bonds itself to whatever it is on. Almost ruined a brand new set of RP-F1 wheels. Wasn't worth the feel.
Have carbotech XP8's all around and still not sure they're enough pad.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I don't like XP10/10 on my Exige because without more front brake bias, the rear ABS sometimes engages when braking hard on a bumpy track and produces ABS freeze (aka ice mode).

ABS freeze is when the brake pedal gets hard, you apply more effort and no additional stopping power is available.

For this reason, I much prefer to run a compound with a slightly lower friction rating on the rear to help avoid triggering the rear ABS.
Why are you running XP10F/ XP8R instead of XP12F and XP10R?
With the R888's on I could see the XP12 maybe being a bit much but when I switch to my Hoosier R6's I think the XP12 should be fine.

I thought my Lotus had good brakes(upgraded fluid and RC5+ with stock rotors) until I rode in my friends Exige with a BBK and slicks. The corner I was comparing he was coming in at 115MPH and braking at the 100' mark while i was coming in around 100MPH and braking at the 200' mark without getting any ABS and thats when i realized, my brakes were not good enough for how hard i was driving on the track.

Car does occasionally run on street but I could care less about noise, my wife already complains about the fuel pump so I don't starve the car, whats a little rotor noise to draw more attention. I also don't drive hard on the street, I save it all for the track.
 

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I am currently running Rc5+ pads and they just don't seem to bite enough(can't hit ABS no matter how hard I press) I'm running R888s and have a set of R6 tires in the garage. Still running stock rotors.

Thinking about XP12 front and XP10 rear is this to aggressive or should I go with the XP10 front and XP8 rear?
Possibly upgrading to Disc Noir or sector 111 two piece rotors for the front.

Let me know your thoughts on best bang for your track focused buck.
You have a problem.

You should be able to engage the ABS with stock pads. Further to this comment your discussion is all about pads - what fluid are you using and how recently was it replaced? It is an integral part of the system and should be replaced annually.

For what its worth I run A048s, pagid blues (RS42) and have no trouble locking up my wheels (MY02 Elise which is pre-ABS).
 

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I've got Big Brakes all the way around. Great stopping power with no fade. It seems the hotter they get the more they grab. But it is a large investment. $$
 

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You have a problem.

You should be able to engage the ABS with stock pads.
+1.....Even with an ass ton of air in my lines after changing the pistons and seals I still could get the ABS to cycle.

That doesn't sound rite!
 

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I push my car hard and had brake overheating problems for a long time with slick tires, and finally settled on this:

Pads: Carbotech XP12 front, XP10 rear. The cooler compound in the back actually moves brake bias to the rear, since it bites harder when cooler.

Rotors: Currently S111 UltraDiscs, which do seem to last longer than basic one-piece rotors, but they're expensive. Haven't tried two piece alternatives yet.

I highly recommend BoE's steel replacement pistons, they keep heat out of your fluid, so you can run really hard without exotic fluids on stock brakes. Downsides, pads retain more heat. When I went to steel pistons, my Pagid RS14's started crumbling, but no more fluid boiling.

Stuff I've tried:
DS2500: Turns to dust after one session

CL RC5/RC6/RC6e: Work great, but they eat rotors like crazy! I get three times the rotor life using Carbotechs. One set of rotors is good for 2 sets of CL pads for me, while carbotechs let the same rotors go 5-6 sets of pads. If you ever get CL brake dust wet, your wheel finish gets destroyed and you have rusty bits of metal embedded in your paint. On the upside, they only get as loud as scraping metal sounds, so any of them are totally streetable without having to swap pads for the track.

Pagid RS14: Good initial bite, higher than carbotech, but borderline on heat handling (get white and crumbly) and extremely uneven pad transfer to the rotor, leading to a lot of shaking under braking.

Hawk DTC30: Seems like an ok intermediate pad, but overheats more than Pagids. No uneven transfer.

I hit ice mode now and then with the ABS, and rather than disable it, I just try to brake in a straighter line next time, and engage brakes more smoothly, which keeps it away. I get ice mode most frequently braking up hill while turning (T5 at Thunderhill), or hard trail braking into a turn (T2 at Laguna).

Here's another annoyance, different pads have different swept areas.

Pagid Black and stock pads have "full" swept area.

Carbotech pads have less swept area than "full"

Hawk have a bit less swept area than Carbotech

CL pads have the smallest swept area.

What this means is that once you run a pad on the list above, you can't swap in a pad above it in the list, because it now sits across a rotor groove, and you have really ****ty braking until the pads wears into the rotor, and then, it ends up being at an angle.

Why can't all these guys make the same shape of brake pad?! Jeez.
 

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Pads: Carbotech XP12 front, XP10 rear. The cooler compound in the back actually moves brake bias to the rear, since it bites harder when cooler.
You've got this exactly backwards. The XP12 have a higher coefficient of friction than the XP10 at all temperatures.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
You have a problem.

You should be able to engage the ABS with stock pads. Further to this comment your discussion is all about pads - what fluid are you using and how recently was it replaced? It is an integral part of the system and should be replaced annually.

For what its worth I run A048s, pagid blues (RS42) and have no trouble locking up my wheels (MY02 Elise which is pre-ABS).
I have a race shop replace fluid once a year or every 6 track days with DOT 5 or something that hasn't had any fade issues. I did put on the RC5 pads after the last owner who tracked the car with stock pads, maybe my rotors are just bad?

I can lock up ABS on the streets because they are dirty and crappy but at a clean smooth race track it doesn't happen.

If anybody is familiar with Portland International Raceway I hit maybe 110-115 on the front straight and have to brake between 450-500' and I feel like I should be in the 350' range from what others have told me.
 

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re: Brakes

If You track the car. you should learn more about pads and fluid. Your life depends on in.

DOT 5 is a silicone fluid spec and is generally not used anymore.... and definitely not good for a stock Elise/Exige.

Dot 4 or 5.1 is good. 5.1 is Castrol SRF and is a very good, very expensive fluid ($70/quart, like a good bottle of wine :) ). I highly recommend it. It is synthetic and works great. You would only need to change it once year.

You should be able to lock-up the brakes. If You cannot something is broken. Severe brake failure on the track is no fun at all... Get it fixed.

Generally rotors do not have much to do with stopping, unless the car vibrates i.e. uneven wear.

Check calipers (stuck), ABS (not working), masters, booster, etc... Fluid, if it is fresh and there are no leaks in the system should not be a problem. Check the fluid color, it should be clear. Have it flushed and bled properly.

My standard brake test is, with engine off:

1. Pump the pedal to get rid of the 'reserve' in the brake booster.
2. Press the pedal really, really hard. You should feel the flex of the lines and the rotors under pressure. You should be able to floor it. The pedal should not feel spongy or too easy to press. In a good brake system with no air and braided hoses and 'hard' pads, you would not be able to floor it.
3. Let go a little from (2), so the pedal comes off the floor, but still maintain a lot of pressure in the system, and keep your foot in the same spot. The pedal should just stay there with the resistance from the expanding hoses and compressed pads trying to push back. It should not move or give. It it kind of moves down under your foot, you have a problem.....

Finally, I do not know the track... 115mph to 40mph to turn in, should be 150' or so with stock brakes. I have Brembos, so 50 to 80' works for me. Braking force is important because it sets up the car for turn-in. Not enough brake and the car will not turn so good.

Anton



I have a race shop replace fluid once a year or every 6 track days with DOT 5 or something that hasn't had any fade issues. I did put on the RC5 pads after the last owner who tracked the car with stock pads, maybe my rotors are just bad?

I can lock up ABS on the streets because they are dirty and crappy but at a clean smooth race track it doesn't happen.

If anybody is familiar with Portland International Raceway I hit maybe 110-115 on the front straight and have to brake between 450-500' and I feel like I should be in the 350' range from what others have told me.
 
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