[theob]

Hi all,


The stock 111R has 5.5x16 front rims and 175/50-16 tyres.
However with the sportpack 111R has 6.5x16 front rims and 195/50-16 tyres.(the rear wheel set changes only the tyre but not the dimensions).

Can I put the 195 tyres on the front stock rims? SHould I be able to do it, the respective question for the rear set is self-answered


Any ideas?

 

[Randy Chase]

In my opinion, yes.. it should not be a problem.

 

[theob]

LSS!!! I'm coming....

 

[theob]

I've seen many people writing about the A048R tires and LSS tires.

1) Are these tires the same?
2) Is there any company on the internet where I can order them for my 111R and fit them on stock rims? (preferrably a european one...)
3) How much do they cost in the US? ( just to have an indication)
4) How long can I expect they'll last? (non-track use)

I'm considering this purchase, because many of our roads are slippery, and 111R understeers sometimes more than wanted.


BR,
Theo

 

[Arno]

4) How long can I expect they'll last? (non-track use)

About 10.000km's maximum with normal road use.

I'm considering this purchase, because many of our roads are slippery, and 111R understeers sometimes more than wanted.

Have the car aligned properly first and then change it so it has a little more front (negative) camber and a little more toe out. That should take care of most of the unsersteer in one go.

Going to A048R's is a very big and expensive step just to reduce some understeer.

Even if you want to go wider then I'd go for normal road tires in 185/50R16 front like the Dunlop SP9000 or the Toyo Proxes T1S.

Bye, Arno.

 

[theob]

Going to A048R's is a very big and expensive step just to reduce some understeer.

The term "some understeer" is very relative to the road conditions we face in our countries...Some of our roads, have friction coefficient close to ice

So maybe as all safety measures, buying such tires would be expensive, but also a good preventive measure.

Thanks for your tips about adjusting the suspension. Should I also take case of it when I'd change the tires to A048Rs?


BR,
Theo

 

[ConeFusion]

Some of our roads, have friction coefficient close to ice

Running A048's might not help you much then. From what I hear/see, R-compounds have a much bigger advantage on grippy surfaces (like concrete). If it's slippery because the surface is dirty, wet, cold, or just plain bad, R-compounds don't work much better than street tires.

 

[theob]

Thanks a lot Conefusion! With Arno's feedback combined, your answer was very helpful, not only to me but hopefully for much more people reading this thread!
As one can conclude from your views, for the quality of roads I'm talking about, one should only try to tweak the front suspension a bit.

Could you Arno tell me with how much more negative front camber, and toe out could I initially start? Unfortunately, I don't have the manual with me right now to tell you the figures 111R has already.

BR,

Theo

 

[Arno]

The 111R probably has the same settings as the older Elises.

So at the front it's currenty almost 0° for both the camber and the toe setting. (exactly straight up and straight ahead)

Going to -0.5° front camber and something like 0°10" total toe OUT should make it a lot more grippy at the front, but not cause too much tire wear.

On the S2 you can reach around -1° of front camber before you have to start modifying (shaving/cutting) the mounting plinth or the hub carrier face.

It's a good idea to have the car alignment checked after a few months anyway, as they do unfortunately *not* come from the factory with the proper settings most of the time, or the settings 'drift' after everything settles down during use.

Very common complaint on new Elises for instance is that the steering wheel is at an angle when going straight.. It tracks straight and there's no real alignment problem, but the steering wheel is not centered properly..

Very strange for a company who prides themselves on suspension and such, but it's a very common occurrance.

Bye, Arno.

 

[theob]

The 111R probably has the same settings as the older Elises.

So at the front it's currenty almost 0° for both the camber and the toe setting. (exactly straight up and straight ahead)

Going to -0.5° front camber and something like 0°10" total toe OUT should make it a lot more grippy at the front, but not cause too much tire wear.

On the S2 you can reach around -1° of front camber before you have to start modifying (shaving/cutting) the mounting plinth or the hub carrier face.

It's a good idea to have the car alignment checked after a few months anyway, as they do unfortunately *not* come from the factory with the proper settings most of the time, or the settings 'drift' after everything settles down during use.

Very common complaint on new Elises for instance is that the steering wheel is at an angle when going straight.. It tracks straight and there's no real alignment problem, but the steering wheel is not centered properly..

Very strange for a company who prides themselves on suspension and such, but it's a very common occurrance.

Bye, Arno.

What the manual says about 111R suspension parameters is the following:

Front suspension

[bi]Geometry specs - Standard Elise 111R[/bi]
Castor: Optimum: +3.8°
Tolerance range: +3.5° to +4.1°
max. side/side 0.35°

Camber: Optimum: -0.1°
Tolerance range: +0.1° to -0.3°
max. side/side 0.2°

Alignment: Optimum: Zero
Tolerance range: 0.5mm toe out to 0.7mm toe-in overall

[bi]Geometry specs - Roadsport Elise 111R, Exige:[/bi]
Castor: Optimum: +3.8°
Tolerance range: +3.5° to +4.1°
max. side/side 0.35°

Camber: Optimum: -0.3° (That's the 1st difference!)
Tolerance range: +0.1° to -0.5°
max. side/side 0.2°

Alignment: Optimum: Zero
Tolerance range: 0.5mm toe out to 0.5mm toe-in overall (2nd difference)


Rear suspension

[bi]Geometry specs - Standard Elise 111R[/bi]
Camber: Optimum: -1.8°
Tolerance range: -1.6° to -2.0°
max. side/side 0.2°

Alignment: Optimum: 1.2mm toe-in each side
Tolerance range: 1.2mm to 1.8mm toe-in each side
max. side/side 0.3mm

[bi]Geometry specs - Roadsport Elise 111R, Exige:[/bi]
Camber: Optimum: -1.8°
Tolerance range: -1.6° to -2.0°
max. side/side 0.2°

Alignment: Optimum: 1.5mm toe-in each side
Tolerance range: 1.2mm to 1.8mm toe-in each side
max. side/side 0.3mm


Having this data, what would you recommend me Arno to do?

Hope this data will be very helpful for all...

BR,
Theo

 

[NevB]

A048 lifetime on an Elise is quite different to heavier cars.

A friend of mine has an Elise 111 Sport ... he has done 8000k on his tyres so far, including several track days and a 6 day rally.

I would estimate his front tyres are less than half worn - didn't get to check the rears unfortunately.

So I certainly think you will get 15000+ on the front set.

I have A048s on my 111R. The differences so far:

1) ride - substantially harsher on rough tarmac
2) noise - no change in tyre noise [fyi, Bridgestone 540 rubber is very noisy]
3) steering response - much improved turn in response - rapid slalom is instant response
4) steering weight - heavier at parking speeds, fine above that
5) braking grip - awesome - I can force the ABS to come on with neck snapping braking, but its way past the braking force you would use in normal driving
6) lateral grip - awesome - feels flatter to me than the standard tyre
7) understeer - much less understeer, only apparant during low speed tight turns like round abouts. The stock tyre understeers quite readily on a roundabout, which is why I wanted to change to the Yokies.
8) launch grip - I haven't been able to get any wheelspin with 3000 rpm launches - the 111R just jumps from the line. I plan to try for some spin after the first service. [big brother is watching <grin>]
9) oversteer - with anything less than 6000rpm the elise is glued to the road. Still running in so I haven't pushed into the 6000+ power band

A set of Yokie A048 Lotus edition - yes, this is a special version made for Lotus - will cost $3000 AUD downunder. By comparision, a set of Bridgestone 540 costs about $2400 AUD. So they are are around 20% more expensive than other track rubber.

 

[NevB]

BTW, the above post is for dry tarmac ... it hasn't rained in Melbourne since I got my 111R.

But I can give some wet road experience from my Nissan 200sx which rode on Bridgstone 540 track rubber for 6 months.

Light to medium wet roads
For quick sensible driving in light to medium wet, ie, braking early and constant speed cornering, the 540 was as good, if not better than the standard road tyres. Spirited driving would provoke controllable understeer and oversteer at will.

Heavy wet roads
Some aquaplaning at speed with standing water. Drive sensibly though and there is no problem - very easy to manage.

 

[NevB]

Oh, and the bottom line ...

If you have the means, and you are not concerned about the harsher ride, get the A048 tyres. They are *much* better.

Cheers

Nev

 

[theob]

Did you fit the A048Rs on stock rims though, or did you use the wider optional rims that come from Lotus, or any other after-market rims?

 

[NevB]

Hi Theo,

I'm using the OZ Motorsport Rims ... they are 6.5" at the front, but the same width at the rear.

According to Yokohama you should have no trouble fitting the A048 195/16/50 to the stock 5.5" rim

Cheers,

Nev