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Discussion Starter #1
Finally got a chance to put in the V-Bar and Schroth harnesses in my Elise this weekend.

Thanks to Cory1000 (Cory) for bringing the bar back from Las Vegas. :bow:

I decided to remove the stock seatbelts and pre-tensioner units, which took off about 10 pounds of weight, but also complicated matters because of the SRS electronics system which wants to "see" the belt pre-tensioners. Otherwise you get a red warning light on the dash. :no: Simple fix as described below. (Thanks to LT-er for the help on the electronics)

1. Remove seats and back panel. Need to remove back panel to access pre-tensioner assemblies. Not hard to do, just takes a little time.
2. Remove seat belt assemblies, top bolt for belts and bottom bolt for pre-tensioner assemblies. Single Torx bolt holds pre-tensioner assembly on each side of car. Disconnect wiring (snap plug) from seat belt assembly.
3. To fool the SRS system, I had to build a jump connector with a 2.2 Ohm resistor, which matches the nominal resistance in the normal circuit. I bought the resistors from www.digi-key.com for $8 delivered (5 pack, but only need 2, one per side).
4. Using the OEM connectors, I fashioned a connector that snaps right into the original wiring harness (see pics) Simple to reverse, if necessary.
5. Wire-tied the connectors to the seat belt assembly mounting post, re-installed back panel.
6. Installed V-Bar per Sector 111 instructions, very simple to do. Took about 10 minutes, after I removed the stock seat belts. Contrary to other opinions, I didn't lose use of the mesh basket on the back panel. I can still put my registration and garge door opener in there easily.
7. Harness installation was straight-forward. Having the seats out of the car made it easy to remove the stock hardware and install the harness hardware on the seat sections.
8. Routing the harness straps over the V-Bar was a little more difficult as the passenger seat doesn't have enough space to fit the strap-lock piece in a normal position. Not a problem on the driver's side, because you can move the seat forward.
9. Set the length of the harnesses, strapped myself in and off I went!! :coolnana: :shift:

Felt very comfortable and snug. No sliding in the seat. Takes a little longer to strap in, but once I get used to it, should be no problem!

Regards,
Wayne
 

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Discussion Starter #2
More Pics of V-Bar and Harness

Here are some more pics.

Regards,
Wayne
 

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im looking forward to comments on your harness wrapping over the seats. as i am about to do the same, and have heard nothing but bad things. anyway, your set up looks great congrats!

how about the lap belts? how are they mounted?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
im looking forward to comments on your harness wrapping over the seats. as i am about to do the same, and have heard nothing but bad things. anyway, your set up looks great congrats!

how about the lap belts? how are they mounted?
Hi Robert,
On the Driver's side, no problem with the belts over the seat backs. Everything is snug and tight. Aligns nicely for my frame. I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs.

Passenger side is another thing. The strap-locks are blocked by the seat back, so I had to thread them over the harness bar's strap slots. I know that's not right but until I figure something else out, it will have to do. Fortunately, I never have passengers!!

Lap belts are mounted to seats in place of OEM belt hardwrae. I removed all the stock hardware: springs, belt snap, bolts. etc. and used the hardeware from Sector 111's harness kit. Took a while to figure out the best configuration, but it works well now.

I'll post pics of the lap belt layout tomorrow.

Regards,
Wayne
 

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Discussion Starter #6
shoulder belts over the seats present a serious safety issue. please see
http://www.schrothracing.com/docs/Competition_Instructions.pdf
Agreed. Yes, I read every single word in that document before I installed the belts. As with any instructions and/or warnings, it's a matter of interpretation and judgement. Schroth is being diligent as a manufacturer in pointing out the proper configuration for its product. I get that.

I accept the limitations with my set-up.

Regards,
Wayne
 

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This is a message that Wayne sent about the connectors that were used in the above post:

The yellow connector I used with the resistor is actually the connector that was on the seat belt pre-tensioner assembly.

I disconnected it from the pre-tensioner assembly by removing the 2 wires that went into the connector. The wires just snap out. Then I ran the leads of the resistor through the same holes in the connector that the pre-tensioner wires ran in. As luck would have it, the resistor and pre-tensioner wires are the same gauge, so it was easy to re-use the same connector.

Wayne
 

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Wayne,

Do you still have the part number for the resistors?

The Digi-Key catalog is like a forrest.

Thanks,

Ken
 

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Discussion Starter #11

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awesome, looks good wayne. I went with the seat grommet from Sector111 so the belts don't slide off the side of the seats. It's a little cumbersome to install but works great.
 

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Got the resistors today from radio shack and put them in and this works perfectly.

Thanks very much for posting your work.

ken
 

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Cue Fishguy. :no:
late to the party.........
the pictures in post # two should be captioned;
" what not to do with your harness install if you actually want to be safe in an impact"
what else can i say.............
I dont want to hurt the OP s' feelings, but i would rather that, than read the thread about what happened to you if you ever end up "using" that set-up.


Agreed. Yes, I read every single word in that document before I installed the belts. As with any instructions and/or warnings, it's a matter of interpretation and judgement. Schroth is being diligent as a manufacturer in pointing out the proper configuration for its product. I get that.

I accept the limitations with my set-up.

Regards,
Wayne
Wayne,
again, i dont want to hurt your feelings, or you to feel attacked, but replace the word "limitations", with completely ineffective, and you will then understand what you have got there.

I sat in a car set-up like that at the dealership that was in for service.............I do hope you reconsider, but if you dont care about your own safety, i guess its not really worth going into.

I dont think you really understood the document that you read "every word" of.
just my opinion being said, not for my benefit, but for yours, and others who see this thread.
Not safe, worse than the stock 3 point belt IMO
 

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late to the party.........
the pictures in post # two should be captioned;
" what not to do with your harness install if you actually want to be safe in an impact"
what else can i say.............
I dont want to hurt the OP s' feelings, but i would rather that, than read the thread about what happened to you if you ever end up "using" that set-up.



Wayne,
again, i dont want to hurt your feelings, or you to feel attacked, but replace the word "limitations", with completely ineffective, and you will then understand what you have got there.

I sat in a car set-up like that at the dealership that was in for service.............I do hope you reconsider, but if you dont care about your own safety, i guess its not really worth going into.

I dont think you really understood the document that you read "every word" of.
just my opinion being said, not for my benefit, but for yours, and others who see this thread.
Not safe, worse than the stock 3 point belt IMO
Aren't you assuming what his shoulder height is? When I sit in my stock seats, my shoulders are higher than the top sides of the seat, so if I were to sit in this car, the harness would travel directly from my shoulders to the harness bar without touching the seat at the 0-20 degree angle.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
late to the party.........
the pictures in post # two should be captioned;
" what not to do with your harness install if you actually want to be safe in an impact"
what else can i say.............
I dont want to hurt the OP s' feelings, but i would rather that, than read the thread about what happened to you if you ever end up "using" that set-up.



Wayne,
again, i dont want to hurt your feelings, or you to feel attacked, but replace the word "limitations", with completely ineffective, and you will then understand what you have got there.

I sat in a car set-up like that at the dealership that was in for service.............I do hope you reconsider, but if you dont care about your own safety, i guess its not really worth going into.

I dont think you really understood the document that you read "every word" of.
just my opinion being said, not for my benefit, but for yours, and others who see this thread.
Not safe, worse than the stock 3 point belt IMO
Hi Fishguy,
Thanks for your comments and, No, you didn't hurt my feelings. I always appreciate constructive criticism and hope to learn from other's experience.

That said, I should clarify a few things:
1. By "limitations", I didn't mean to infer that I was compromising my safety by using these belts as I installed them. Rather, I meant that I didn't have a true "racing" seat with harness holes and other mounting options for the belts (floor mounts, etc.). I used the stock seats because I was confident that the belts would be a safe option with them. I followed all vendor and manufacturer instructions when I installed them.

2. I think it's hard to judge the seat belt effectiveness unless you see the driver in the seat with the belt. As Chotto commented, when I sit in the seat, my shoulders are higher than the seat back and the belts do not touch the seat itself, they go from the bar to my shoulder without rubbing on the seat.

3. I checked the various diagrams on Schroth's site to ensure I routed the belts properly and that my position is, in fact, a safe one for the belts.

4. I have since re-adjusted the belt positioning from the original pictures to have a better fit and configuration.

BTW, I did a long run this weekend with other Lotus owners (Southern Ohio Run), under "spirited" driving conditions :D and found the security and comfort of these belts to be much better than the stock ones.

I would like to know what specifically you think is wrong with my set-up. I will correct as necessary.

Thanks again for the input.

Regards,
Wayne
 

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I would like to know what specifically you think is wrong with my set-up. I will correct as necessary.

Thanks again for the input.

Regards,
Wayne
wayne, it is my understanding that holes cut out for shoulder harnesses in racing seats are there so that the shoulder belts do not seperate, as in move away from your sternum out towards your shoulders, or off your body completely when under the huge load that they will be under in an impact.
its one thing to sit in the car with the belts on, and jostle yourself around, and feel like you are secure, its completely another thing to take a hit under big g-loads of an impact.
having the shoulder belts at the right position, and keeping them there is critical to them working correctly.
I am 6 feet, 195 lbs, and the seats i sat in , which was just like the set-up in your picture was terrible. the stock set up would be better, and i would even venture to say that the cut outs on the stock seat, which seem to be a big no-no would be better than what you have.
i still think cutting the stock seats is a bad idea as opposed to getting a proper race seat, but even that is better than what you are doing.
driving and being restrained while driving is one thing, but being restrained under the forces of a wreck/impact are VERY different.
my experiences have only been with a proper race seat and a HANS in a t-bone impact, and also in my formula ford, again with the proper belt system for the car, and a hard hit , and i was fine in each event.
2 weeks ago i got a nice four foot bounce in my formula first, and i was really glad i took the time to pour a well fitting foam seat. again, no injuries.
knowing how those felt, and the "oh $h!t feeling", when i realized i was going to hit, it was glad i had the proper safety gear, and could relax and take the hit in hopes of not being injured due to being tensed up.
best wishes, and i hope you dont become our "test dummy" with that set-up.
stock belt and a CG lock is safer than what you are running IMO also, just doesnt look as cool.

best of luck, and I hope you look further into the issues of what you are trying to save;
your body?; which you only have one and is hard to replace, or a few dollars?; of which you likely have the abilty to replace fairly easily.
 

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The belts go through the slots on the bar, wont this stop them from spreading apart if anything happened?

wayne, it is my understanding that holes cut out for shoulder harnesses in racing seats are there so that the shoulder belts do not seperate, as in move away from your sternum out towards your shoulders, or off your body completely when under the huge load that they will be under in an impact.
 

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I have done some reserach this week on this as well. Really after seeing the installation in Waynes car and the fact that it keeps you in the chair when driving spirited.

From what I can see the wholes in the chairs are there for two reasons.

1 to make sure the spread of the shoulder harnesses are not to wide.

2 to make sure you get the correct angle between the belt / shoulder / harness bar.

I was not planning to change seats since I like the stock seats this thread has make me think that maybe I should invest in other seats as well.

I probably have a false sense of security in this car since I am used to race motorcycles for many years.
 
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