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Discussion Starter #1
I see a lot of talk about turbo or super chargers, or engine swaps with various 1L to 2L inline 4 engines. But has anyone done a v6 engine swap? (Other than the Esthi, which had a lot more going on than just an engine swap).

Seems you've got a lot of space back there for an engine if you're willing to sacrifice some trunk space. Mind you, you'd probably want a lot more work to support this sort of a change. I'm just curious if anyone has even tried it. Must be a number of v6 rear engines that would fit in the bay, perhaps something from Porsche?

I have a long ways to go before I'd think about something remotely like that, I'm just asking out of curiosity really.
 

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00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
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A stroked 2zz and Garret GT28 turbo setup will give you all the low end grunt you'd want, and still cost WAYYYY less than a V6 swap...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Most likely, but that doesn't mean someone didn't have a spare v6 lying around and thought they''d give it a go.

While you're here, any of your buddies crank more power out of the engine while leaving it NA? And I mean comparable to supercharging it more.
 

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Any V engine conversion in the Elise is difficult.

If you keep it transverse (like the NSX V6) to try and keep a similar driveline setup as currently used then the exhaust headers at the 'front' have very little space and you probably have to get very creative to stop the car from burning down.

Small angle V engines help in this area. (and if you're thinking of the VW VR6 engines.. Don't.. Very heavy and very low specific power output)

The other option is to put it in lenghtwise to get more room for the intake and exhaust systems like the Esthi and the 300RR.

But now you're in a world of pain because you have to re-do the entire rear subframe, engine mounts, etc. etc. Very much fabrication and modification work.

It can all be done and if someone has the competence and tooling to do it then by all means go for it. It's just not really economically viable compared to modifying the original engine.

There's at least 1 S1 Elise in Italy with a V6 Alfa Romeo engine in the back. Unfortunately it handles like a pig because the engine+gearbox package is quite heavy.

Bye, Arno.
 

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camry v6's have been done in mr2's. don't see why it can't be done in the elise. From what i hear, if you use the avalon motor, it's actually lighter than a 2zz. but for all i know, whoever told me could have been smokin crack.
 

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00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
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Most likely, but that doesn't mean someone didn't have a spare v6 lying around and thought they''d give it a go.

While you're here, any of your buddies crank more power out of the engine while leaving it NA? And I mean comparable to supercharging it more.
Here's where our lowly Toyota FWD econoboxes are as far as bolt ons go with NO internal modifications, and a standalone ECU tune (vids and dynos are in the link):

200.7whp N/A Corolla XRS - NewCelica.org Forum

200.7whp on a N/A 2006 Corolla XRS


Engine Mods
Injen CAI
Bored TB (Maxbore)
PPE Headers
PPE Midpipe (which deletes the cat)
Magnaflow Resonator "muffler" (helps with the raspy sound)
Magnaflow muffler
Hydra EMS (Tuned by Redliner9k)
In all honesty I do believe the dyno does read high. I was surprise at the #'s as yourselfs and started asking them what other engine with similar mods put down in there dyno to compare. In all honesty i don't think the car is producing 200whp. We did some street runs and to be totally honest the car is the fastest 2zz NA I've been on and I've been in a few. I'd say the car is right now around 190-194whp. The car feels VERY strong, alot stronger than the 180whp 2zz's I've been on including my own 2zz.

That being said, the only reason I didn't get more gains is because the Hydra kept erasing my VVT map. Imaging tuning a PFC getting your VVT down, and all of a sudden everything goes to 0. That happened to me 3 times and I had to do the whole VVT map again and again so I didn't have time to tweak VVT at all. Also to mention, the car on the stock ECU was running a 14.5-14.8 AFR all throughout Lift, so I wouldn't be surprised it put down such great #'s especially when they were cold runs and the final Hydra run was on a heatsoaked engine with 25 pulls on it previously.

Wish I had more time to figure out the kinks, am sure I've could've gotten really close to the 200whp barrier on a more conservative dyno.

That's all I can say right now, #'s are #'s. All dyno's are different, so to each his own.
I pushed for the PPE race header to get made here by Bane, so now you can enjoy such top end numbers as well since it was the top end oriented PPE race header design that brought about a handful of 190+ whp NA 2zz's when tuned on a standalone ECU. Now by the time you follow this N/A checklist with your corresponding Lotus I/H/E variants:

N/A FAQ is it somewhere on this thread - NewCelica.org Forum

Start off with...
Injen CAI
PPE header
Kazuma (or mandrel 2.5" ID system)
No cat
Fidanza 'wheel
UR pullies..at your peril, lol (maybe even substitute the AEM alt pulley for the UR one)
69mm TB and port matched to IM
Lots and Lots of weight reduction
lightweight wheels & drag radials


Getting serious...
Power FC
Piper cams (stage II - Stage III requires valves and springs)
Ceramic coating on header
Littlerocket Underdrive lightweight pullies
CF hood & rear hatch
race battery
Fully adjustable suspension


Serious stage...
Head work
race bearings with dry film coating
Piper Cams - stage 3
Forged high comp pistons 12.0:1 - 13.0:1
Light aftermarket rods
MWR valvetrain (if you want to maximise stage III cams with 9k rev limit)
MWR bearings (if you want to still have a working car and a 9k rev limit)
Custom IM and scary TB (boosted2.0 working on this one ;) )
Knife edged crank (for the really brave ones)
Dry film coating on pistons sides & bearings
Ceramic coating on piston top, head underside and valve underside
ceramic on header
oil shedding coating on rods and crankshaft
J&S safeguard
larger fuel pump & injectors
Circuitworx oil pump upgrade
Possible stroker kit
LSD


Track only
HIGH compression forged pistons 15.0:1
UR Crank pulley
Race gas only + race gas tune
Custom 3" CAI with 6" bell on inlet - no filter
Custom large tube header with burns collectors with header dumping to atmosphere
lightened, knife edged polished and ballanced crank
Boosted2.0 / Littlerocket Mac Daddy Race intake manifold (under development)
Lexan windows
electric water pump
alternator delete (drag only)
P/S delete (drag only)
dry sump
crank scraper
It seems like we're making more NA power than you guys ever will for a while lol . You MIGHT be able to hit 200 whp by the "getting serious" stage, or by the time you stick in high compression pistons, which the Celica GTS has been supposedly been able to do on the stock ECU just fine by Puerto Rican tuners with Mahle 12.5:1 and TRD 13:1 drop in pistons...but will see the best gains on a standalone ECU tune. As for the stock Lotus ECU, I dunno if the Lotus ECU could handle those drop in pistons. And as for the light weight pullies and street or race intake manifolds, they're in the works by Boosted2.0 and lilrocket.

But since you guys might need more power than low 200's to be competative, nothing will beat a non-intercooled MP62 based supercharger kit (greddy, tripoint, sector 111, BWR) with a custom tune, 10 psi pulley upgrade, high flowing bolt ons, and water injection for the 2zz for the money. Supercharging will offer NA'esque linearity with a better torque curve, and give you the same power an expensive NA build would do for a fraction of the money. The setup I mentioned should be good for at least 240 whp on a custom tune, and won't break your bank to get a custom A2W intercooler made like how other members are doing. As far as more powerful supercharger kits are concerned with different supercharger units and intercoolers...we'll see when they come out and what power they make if you're patient. I personally think a NA build would be best suited in a Lotus than a GTS...but when you guys only need 350 whp to get low 11's with a 130 mph trap speed...I can't argue with boosting either :p .
 

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00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
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Oh, and by the way, if you're on a quest for torque, there's nothing better than a nicely tuned Garret GT28 series turbo setup...

2zzge trubo Dyno - NewCelica.org Forum

For the few of you who still remember me, I thought I'd post an update.

This is this is from my 2000 MR2 Spyder with a 2000 Celica GT-S 2zzge engine in it with a gt28rs turbo and a air 2 water intercooler and a Hydra Nemesis ECU ;

Links to car;
F*CK IT!!! (warning lots of pictures) - C7Performance.com - Canada's Celica & Toyota enthusiast community / club

Turbo'ed 2zzge + Hydra EMS update - NewCelica.org Forum

New Pictures of the Spyder - NewCelica.org Forum


The car came off the dyno last week, I only did a tune with the boost controller off (6.6psi) and the boost controller on low (10 psi). I was doing the tune for higher psi (13-14 psi) when a hose ripped (it was damaged from a gasket leak earlier) and stopped the tunning. I have a new hose on the way, I'm not sure if I'm going to go back on the dyno this year to do the 13-14 psi tune and a race gas tune. It'll be another $1000 for dyno time if I do and I'm not sure I can afford to send the $$.

I also think there is more HP here at this boost level with some more dyno time. I think the cam timing for this at high RPM is not good, and if I had more time to adjust it I would have found more HP. With the boost controller off (6.6psi) the car made 293 whp and 220 wtorque.

Here is the dyno of 10 psi, I'm having a bit of a problem with the wastegate holding constant. It's varying the PSI from 9.2-10 psi and that is hwy I'm getting the ripples.

Now imagine having additional VE mods (custom intake manifold, ported head, etc), the stroker kit for 1.94 liters, and still being able to safely rev to the stock rev limiter of 8,400 rpm with the stroker (but no more). There's your cure for no midrange torque.
 

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camry v6's have been done in mr2's. don't see why it can't be done in the elise.
MR2's are not made of fiberglass. As Arno pointed out: "the exhaust headers at the 'front' have very little space and you probably have to get very creative to stop the car from burning down."
 

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The Sport Exige 300RR car has a V6 engine in it. The body has been substantially modified to accommodate the new engine along with other components though. That car's for sale if you got half a million lying around in your house :)

It can be done but it's a LOT more cost effective to just FI your four-banger.
 
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