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Disingenuous Minion
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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, stock 05 Elise Sport and Touring, except de-snorkle, de-visor, micro-mirror, LETSLA; no top, stock battery and exhaust, full tank of gas.

I measured the weight at each wheel, +/-10lbs per wheel. Here are the results:

LF: 380lbs, 19.6%
RF: 360lbs, 18.6%
LR: 600lbs, 30.9%
RR: 600lbs, 30.9%

Total: 1940lbs

For what its worth...
 

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1851 for me. '05 Elise, light weight battery, no airbag wheel, TR wheels, Forcedfed header, Quicksilver muffler, etc. Others, like Perry, go crazy with weight:bow:
 

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Disingenuous Minion
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Discussion Starter #3
This is my baseline. I won't say what the weight is with me in it...but my gut is the largest opportunity for weight savings!

Changing the exhaust this weekend. Plan to de-A/C and de-ABS at least.
 

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This is my baseline. I won't say what the weight is with me in it...but my gut is the largest opportunity for weight savings!

Changing the exhaust this weekend. Plan to de-A/C and de-ABS at least.
You're stopping distances will suck if you remove the ABS. Very bad idea.
 

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Disingenuous Minion
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Discussion Starter #5
You're stopping distances will suck if you remove the ABS. Very bad idea.
I managed the development of this ABS in the 90's. Stopping distance and car control on dry asphalt is better without the ABS system if you know what you are doing. Same with any ABS on any car.

'Don't plan to drive in the rain or snow.
 

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I managed the development of this ABS in the 90's. Stopping distance and car control on dry asphalt is better without the ABS system if you know what you are doing. Same with any ABS on any car.

'Don't plan to drive in the rain or snow.
Post of the damn year!:clap: Thank you.

1851 for me. '05 Elise, light weight battery, no airbag wheel, TR wheels, Forcedfed header, Quicksilver muffler, etc. Others, like Perry, go crazy with weight:bow:
Niiiice! What's 'etc.'?
 

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1851 for me. '05 Elise, light weight battery, no airbag wheel, TR wheels, Forcedfed header, Quicksilver muffler, etc. Others, like Perry, go crazy with weight:bow:

pretty much the same here....
 

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shay2nak
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1851 for me. '05 Elise, light weight battery, no airbag wheel, TR wheels, Forcedfed header, Quicksilver muffler, etc. Others, like Perry, go crazy with weight:bow:
it would be nice to get to 1850, but I doubt it. Not without going crazy on the car. Since the Exige S is about 50lbs heavier than the Elise, I'd be happy at 1900. Which is easily reached. :)
 

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You're stopping distances will suck if you remove the ABS. Very bad idea.
Entirely false. The whole point of an ABS system is to intermittently reduce system pressure, thereby increasing stopping distance. Most systems are only of use when turning in slick or otherwise low-traction situations.

In the dry, on tarmac, anyone with even a novice level of ability should be able to out-brake just about anyone's ABS system.
 

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Entirely false.
In the dry, on tarmac, anyone with even a novice level of ability should be able to out-brake just about anyone's ABS system.

In panic situation, about %95 of people slam on the brake pedal.

You must be a well trained driver (about less than %1 of population) to be able manipulating your foot pressure over the brake -with such a finesse- in order to reach or exceed ABS performance.
 

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The point of ABS isn't to help stopping distance.

The point of ABS is to help drivers steer while braking. Non-professionals benefit from ABS for this reason.
 

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Disingenuous Minion
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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Easiest way to prove that you can beat ABS on dry asphalt is to try it.

Couple of cones or reference points in an empty parking lot. Get up to about 40 mph and slam on the brakes at your starting cone; just hold full pressure and let ABS activate. Mark your stopping point.

Then go at the same speed and try to beat the distance by modulating the brakes (not pumping, holding at the threshold of adhesion). I would bet that after a few trys most people on this forum could do it. I can beat the ABS on an '08 Exige S, and I'm far far from top 1% of skilled drivers in the US.

Its a heck of a lot easier than heel-toe since you are modulating and blipping and steering and shifting all at the same time. This is only braking.
 

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So I take it 1940 is good...? I wouldn't know, if it's heavier than me (170-ish) then it's perfectly okay, and it makes me feel less insecure about me being fat! :D
 

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Easiest way to prove that you can beat ABS on dry asphalt is to try it.

Couple of cones or reference points in an empty parking lot. Get up to about 40 mph and slam on the brakes at your starting cone; just hold full pressure and let ABS activate. Mark your stopping point.

Then go at the same speed and try to beat the distance by modulating the brakes (not pumping, holding at the threshold of adhesion). I would bet that after a few trys most people on this forum could do it. I can beat the ABS on an '08 Exige S, and I'm far far from top 1% of skilled drivers in the US.
You haven't try it yet. Have you?

It takes a lot of practice.

Its a heck of a lot easier than heel-toe since you are modulating and blipping and steering and shifting all at the same time. This is only braking.
Again, when panicked, your first reaction is to slam on the brakes.

Only very experienced drivers have trained their mind to overcome panic brake. It would take years of practice for an average driver to perform like a professional in real life.

People hear who have enough experience on track would agree with my statement..
 

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Disingenuous Minion
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Discussion Starter #15
You haven't try it yet. Have you?
As I said I have done it in an '08 Exige. It took about three trys and I could consistently beat the ABS.

I also spent 8 years as a braking engineer and program manager at TRW Automotive developng and managing ABS programs for 14 OEMs including Lamborghini, Lotus , and other more mundane but higher volume vehicles.

We used professional test drivers for the low-mu development, but it is not difficult for an enthusiast with practice to stop faster than ABS on dry asphalt.
 

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Okay, so you have both knowledge and experience. My bad!

As for 'panic situation' i still think an enthusiast driver would hit the brakes as hard as he/she can. I said that from personal experience: I've been driving for more than 20 years; most of it spirited way and i'm an enthusiast with some track time in my skinny belt. I've faced a dangerous/scary situation only a few times unexpectedly, and each time I broke as hard as I could or have no-time to do anything at all, or it was just too late to do something different other than braking and turning abruptly the steering wheel.:shrug:
 

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Ok, stock 05 Elise Sport and Touring, except de-snorkle, de-visor, micro-mirror, LETSLA; no top, stock battery and exhaust, full tank of gas.

Total: 1940lbs

For what its worth...


1940 LBS + A pair of sun glasses.

-poke- You forgot to mention that.. Just look over the dashboard.:D
 

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it would be nice to get to 1850, but I doubt it. Not without going crazy on the car. Since the Exige S is about 50lbs heavier than the Elise, I'd be happy at 1900. Which is easily reached. :)
exige s is a lot more than 50lbs heavier... closer to 150lbs.... my car is a little more than 210 lbs lighter, and my car is about 60-70 lbs lighter than a regular elise.
 

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Disingenuous Minion
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Discussion Starter #19
Well in the interest of harmony, I agree with you that in a panic or on low friction surfaces, expecially split mu (dry asphalt on one side, water or snow on the other) ABS is a saviour.

I'm taking mine out to save weight, to have fun with the challenge of adding a variable prop valve, and with the knowledge that I will not be driving much in rain, if at all, and never in ice or snow.

Anyone driving on the road with the potential to experience those conditions or who is not confident in modulating the brakes in a panic should definitely not remove or disable the ABS.

:)
 

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Back in 2005 when I attempted the very first "Elise Experience Driving Course" in Juliet, IL with pro driving instructors from Lotus, one of the practice we did was braking very hard from 60-65 mph on a fed Elise with disabled ABS, so we could get to know the feeling, and how to maneuver when the front wheels were locked.

Dave Minter one of the 4 instructors of that course which he is also a well known engineer in Lotus tell me: "the ABS is not necessary for Elise"-

We all know the reasons, and why he said such a thing . But man, he's heck a great driver, specially in a car that he helped engineer it.
 
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