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At what point do you not buy the car?

  • 1800 pounds is my limit

    Votes: 5 16.1%
  • 1900 pounds is my limit

    Votes: 12 38.7%
  • 2000 pounds is my limit

    Votes: 9 29.0%
  • I am not worried about the weight.

    Votes: 5 16.1%

  • Total voters
    31
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Discussion Starter #1
Please answer. I am making this assumption. The USA car will gain some weight. They are adding some things that don't have negative mass. I am assuming the car is staying at $38.5k and uses a Toyota 190hp drivetrain with a 6 speed. Everything else is as expected. Except the weight...
 

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Dry weight 2,000 lbs would be about my limit. Add another 100lbs over that & I'll swap my spot to a later one. Would then take a close look at the demo car before deciding
 

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1900 is probably my limit...even then I would have to think about it, test drive it, see how well Randy does with it on the Solo2 circuit. The light weight is what makes the Elise desirable and unique. If the weight climbs into MR2/Miata territory, I will start to wonder if I wouldn't be better off with a modified Miata, or a stock S2000...
 

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Weight is a concern for me, but I'd still be satisfied with 2100 lbs before I started second guessing my decision.. 2200 or 2300 before I call it quits.
 

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I was really excited when I first started reading about the Elise and that it weighed only 1700 pounds. At the January 2003 L.A. Auto Show, the Lotus guys were saying the U.S. car would come in around 1800 pounds, which is not a huge weight gain. If the car ends up pushing 1900 pounds, that would still be substantially less than a Miata or an MR-2, but IMO the differences (in weight, at least) become less drastic if the car were to go over the 2000 pound threshold.
 

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I'm with Mikester. I am hoping they will give package choices. I want as close to 1700lb as possible. The whole point about this vehicle is the weight. As someone pointed out before at 2200lbs
we have an MR2 :(
 

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To each their own, but if it hits 2200 lbs, it may weigh as much as an MR2, but it still has a bigger, Lotus tuned engine putting out more horsepower and will likely hold the road better than an MR2. In other words, it will be faster, handle better, and be arguably better looking than an MR2. To me, that still holds merit.
 

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True Brian, I have no doubt that even at 2200, the Elise would still be a great, nice-hanlding car, but at a certain point buyers have to ask, "is it worth the $$$$, to change from my present vehicle ?" And, IMO the heavier the car gets, as more "stuff" gets added, the more the uniqueness of the Elise gets blurred.

In the best of all worlds, the Elise ordering process will include a "delete" option for things like the ABS, electric windows and anything else that's not absolutely required by the feds. The only "extra" that I would choose, at this point, would be A/C and a decent stereo. Oh and a hard-top, just because I think they look really good and it's nice to have. :)
 

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The differences you listed are only incremental. Yes, it will be a faster, better handling MR2, but rumors suggest that Toyota is planning exactly that (same engine and everything) for the non-US markets. And you can bet that the super-MR2 isn't going to cost as much.

At 1700-1800 pounds, there is nothing you can do to an MR2 to make it drive like an Elise. At 2200 pounds, it's simply a matter of custom spring and shock rates, wider wheels, and the appropriate power adders, all of which are readily available for much less than the price difference between the two cars.

I think that a 190HP MR2 with Lotus-tuned suspension would be in roughly the same performance category as an S2000. I would much rather have the practicality and comfort of an S2000 (or a modified Miata) in that case. Only a significant qualitative and quantitative handling/performance difference could interest me in a less practical, more expensive, car. Whatever I choose will be my daily driver, after all.
 

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The guys with 1800 pound weight better start looking at something else. LCU never claimed it would come in lesss than that. Arnie told me they were shooting for 1850 but I'm expecting around 1900.
Chris
 

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I truly believe it'll be under 1900 lbs.
I'll probably still be interested if it's under a ton, but if it creeps above 2000 lbs. I'll look to spend my money elsewhere.

I also suspect that once initial demand has been satisfied, they will offer us a "Sport" version with track suspension and without the a/c, radio, floor mats, etc. that will drop 100 lbs. from the car.

Am I dreaming?

Robert Puertas
 

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Well, when it finally comes down to it, this, just like anything else subjective is exactly that - subjective. What works for me doesn't work for everyone and I'm certainly not going to try to convince anyone that I'm right and they aren't.

To compare a modified X car to a stock Elise is unfair, however. If anyone is truely intersted in weight savings, a good portion of what will be added to the federal Elise can be removed by the owner. I have a link to a great story about a Nissan Sentra that went from 2700 lbs to 1700 lbs by removing various non-essential bits. My point is, if you're really that interested in keeping under a certain weight, it can be done, and probably done in an inexpensive manner (it may take some sweat and elbow grease).

I like the car for lots of reasons. Weight is one of them, but it certainly is not the only one. I will still have a smile on my face as you pass me in your turbo Miata or super charged MR2, or '75 Pinto with a blown V8... and I tell you, I won't envy you one bit. ;)
 

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I think it's totally fair to compare to a modified Miata or MR2, since even modified they will be cheaper than the Elise, and mods to the Elise won't provide nearly as much improvement. The more pertinent comparison was to the stock S2000, since that's the other prime contender for my next car (I don't intend to modify any of my cars, but many people do).

But my real point was that at 1800 pounds, even a modified car wouldn't be comparable, but at 2200 pounds I would start to weigh other options like the S2000 or mods to the Miata.

I don't think that a 2,200 pound Elise is at all likely. I am just responding to the hypothetical case that you suggested. If the Federal car really did weigh that much the weight gain could not consist of easily removable stuff. Anything you could strip out of a 2,200 pound Elise, you could strip out of a 2,200 pound MR2 or 2,300 pound Miata. And I'd much rather strip and mod the cheaper car, preferably one I could buy used. (Especially if the weight reduction is done a la the Sport Compact Car article about turning the Sentra into a lightweight performance machine using a sawzall!)

I guess I just have a powerful aversion to buying a lightweight sports car right after an unexpected weight gain. Been there, done that: I own a 2001 Miata. And that weight gain is peanuts compared to what we're talking about here.
 

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If in the end, it still produces a silly smile on my face, then I will not complain too much. For me, this is a weekend car at best...mostly canyon work too.
 

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John Stimson said:
I think it's totally fair to compare to a modified Miata or MR2, since even modified they will be cheaper than the Elise, and mods to the Elise won't provide nearly as much improvement.
well, if you're going to compare a modified car to stock & throw price in there as a deciding factor, then you can do a lot better than a Miata or MR2. Hell, I can make a '79 RX7 run circles around a Ferrari 360 for a *lot* less money, but I'd still rather have the Ferrari.

But my real point was that at 1800 pounds, even a modified car wouldn't be comparable, but at 2200 pounds I would start to weigh other options like the S2000 or mods to the Miata.
I understand your point - and it does have merit. I believe this is the subjective point. The price of the alternatives does not make up the ground lost by he Elise if it turns out to be a pig, at least as far as I'm concerned. As a matter of fact, if the Elise were to hit some absurd weight (like 2300-2400 lbs), and I decided against it, I'm at a loss as to what car I would look at to replace it. It ceratinly wouldn't be a Miata, MR2, S2000, or Boxster... again, just my opinions here.
 

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The only way they'll get the Elise over 2000 pounds would be to put cinderblocks in the trunk and seat! ;)

I'd take a 2000 pound Elise over an S2000, MR2, Boxter, tt, .... any day.
Chris
 

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As long as it is safe and reasonably reliable, I don't care if it's 2000 lb or 1800 lb. If we're getting ~200 hp it will still be fast. It's hard to imagine how the Elise could be more than 2000 lb no matter what accessories came with it. Unless they offered a steel front-end brush guard and 4 ton winch - that would be slick.
 

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V-6

If it is going to weigh 2000 lbs, it had better have a V-6.

Thomas
 
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