The Lotus Cars Community banner

1 - 20 of 55 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Yesterday I got to finally take my first ride in a Ferrari 308. It was an 83 gtsi quatrovalve. So 240hp.
I have three vehicles currently:
96 jeep Cherokee xj
01 Porsche boxster with 33,000 miles.
And a 03 triumph speed four bike.
I have just started saving for more of an exotic car and the Ferrari was really all I ever wanted. About two years ago I started looking at the current market for ferraris and lotus. I still was heavily leaning toward a Ferrari. Either a 308 or 348. I still love the 348 but the 308 is out. It did nothing for me. It felt like my old Porsche 914 but more quirky. And I really dislike how ferrari has to slap the horse logo on practically everything in the car they can. It was even on the dash vents... rotfl
I always have liked the esprit but kinda forgot about them. I was just mesmerized by the horse.
Now I know better. I just can not see passing up an esprit se or s4 for the 308. Even though I haven't been in the lotus ever I also kinda feel I don't have to. I think it is just a car that makes a statement in a way Ferrari really cannot.
Plus massive credit for lotus to sticking with their proven design of light cars with not the most powerful engines on the market. They are real drivers cars in my opinion.
I love my boxster. And getting a lotus allows me to be able to keep it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Kinda disappointing isn't it? When your childhood dream car doesn't pan out to be the orgasmic adrenaline-fest you thought it would. I always wanted a 308 too, even drove one when I was in Germany and I still kinda dream of being a part of that nostalgia too.

Go test-drive a Lotus, you'll never want to drive anything else (except a faster Lotus)! Or just get a Ferrari 348/355 for a year or so then sell it before any serious maintenance has to be done and buy an Esprit, best of both worlds! Life's short, do what you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,886 Posts
The 308, especially the carbed 2 valve cars or the QV('83 through '85) cars are still great driving cars. Fantastic engines, visceral driving experience, drop-dead good lookos. I get the disappointment thought too. The performance is right up there with a 4-door Accord. The quirks and exoticness can be irritating at times. The parts costs are just stoopid. But.... they are still an immensely desireable car IMO.

Im an Esprit guy through and through but The 308/328 series is easily my "tier-1A" second choice. I simply must have one at some point in my life. :D

As for the 348 and 355 - the 355 is the best looking car they have made in the last 20 years but damnit they are service nightmares. The 348 is an OK car and they are dirt cheap now but they arent as good of a car as the 355 and are just as hard to work on. Both of these models at some point may fall into oblivion because they arent modern or cool enough for the rich-guys to bother with and the lower-income buyers can afford the cars but cant deal with the service costs. Very tough cars to buy used. VERY tough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
377 Posts
The last 5 years have been absolutely insane for engine performance on even the most tame sedans. I was looking for an old Ferrari back in 2007 when I was looking for a replacement for the 81' Mercedes 380slc that I bought in college. I will never buy a car made from the late seventies to early 2000's because of their lack of performance and features. While there have been some great supercars, a used 20k evo or wrx can out perform most older exotics.

The new generarion of engine performance makes all of the cars of the past era 70-2000 seem like the dark ages for cars. My old Slc was unique, only 3789 made, and the matters for its body style, but it weighed 3600 lbs, and had 155 bhp. There are exceptional cars in that era, but why not get something with decent power to weight.

My lotus Elise is based off a design from this era, but it fit the power to weight, uniqueness and style, andmost importantly handling amd feel.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
If you want to get a feel for Ferrari parts prices, I figured out a simple formula so you can decide if you can stomach being a part of that club.

Normal part price for a normal car * 10 = Ferrari part price

You'd be surprised how accurate that formula is. I could only recommend paying to be in that club if you are single and ready to mingle. It's AMAZING how much action you will get when you own a Ferrari. It's almost a little disgusting.

But when I was alone driving my 355, I spent a lot of time thinking my old SE was a better car all the way around.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,229 Posts
It has been a long time since I've driven a Ferrari 246 Dino, but that was an excellent handling car...now that I've got a Cup 260, I'd love to compare them back-to-back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,534 Posts
Yep - the old adage 'Never Meet Your Heroes'

I was THIS close on pulling the trigger on an '84 308GTSi Quattrovalve. As Mikey says - great driving 'feel' and iconic looks, but the performance was blah. As noted, it will be outdone by a Camry.

I could have had a nice example (50K miles, Corsa Rossa over tan, BBS wheels, recent tune up) for around $27K. I just couldn't bring myself to do it already having the Elise and the Moke. If I lived in a year round warm climate, but not in Chicago.

As others have noted, modern technology is really amazing. 5 second cars are commonplace. 3 second cars are numerous. I think we may see relatively pedestrian 'inexpensive' cars in the 3-4 second range in a few years.

For a good time, go look back through mags like Classic Cars, Octane, etc and see the stock stats of many of the most exciting and iconic sports cars. For example, one of the most iconic 'desired' sports cars of all time - the Lambo Countach 5000S featuring a hungry V12 - did 0-60 in 4.8s. And now that's happening in four cylinder engines! A '54 Porsche 356 Speedster? 13.9 sec. 1970 Jag XKE V-12? 0-60? 7.2 sec.

Oh, and the 246 Dino GTS is one of my dream cars. One of the most beautiful cars ever penned and to think it was the 'baby bastard Ferrari'
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
Yea, remember how amazing it was that the SE could boost to 280hp with only a 2.2L 4 cylinder in the early 90's? That was really something back then, and it only cost close to a $100K MSRP.

In January, I needed a work car that no one would hate me for driving a high end brand. So I bought a Kia Optima EX Turbo for $26.5K fully loaded with leather, A/C seats, dual sun roofs, Nav, Bluetooth, Sat Radio, folding mirrors, etc, etc, etc.

This is a low cost family car that they are pumping out in large numbers. It has a 2.0L engine that does 274hp and come with a 10 year warranty and consistently does 35 mpg on the highway. Pretty amazing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,534 Posts
Kia and Hyundai are both on fire now! That Optima is a VERY sharp car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,530 Posts
You were driving a nearly 40 year old car and design. Don't expect a much different experience if you drive an older Esprit, especially the G bodied cars. The Esprits drove and handled on par with their contemporary 308, 328 and 348 Ferraris. R & T did an on track comparo of Gurney driving an 84 Esprit and its peer Ferrari on the track and concluded the Ferrari was the better driving/handling/more refined car. The Esprit held its own, but Gurney had reservations about build/sturdiness and fuel starvation in hard turns.

Those older Ferraris were exotic in performance THEN. I think the final G bodies Esprits the HC cars, barely would break into the high 5 seconds to 60, if that. And they handled great for their day, but frankly there are some pretty pedestrian passenger cars out now, for little bucks that pull higher g's, would be faster through the slalom, and brake in shorter distances. Time marches on.

When you look at any older sports car, ANY...MG, Triumph, Lotus, Ferrari, Lambo...you have to assess it within the context of its era. Or do a resto mod.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,534 Posts
Of course!

Just wondering if, in 40 years, people will be saying 'man, how did we get so excited about those Pagani Zonda Rs that have the same performance as my 2052 Honda Futuro sedan?'

:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,886 Posts
You were driving a nearly 40 year old car and design. Don't expect a much different experience if you drive an older Esprit, especially the G bodied cars. The Esprits drove and handled on par with their contemporary 308, 328 and 348 Ferraris. R & T did an on track comparo of Gurney driving an 84 Esprit and its peer Ferrari on the track and concluded the Ferrari was the better driving/handling/more refined car. The Esprit held its own, but Gurney had reservations about build/sturdiness and fuel starvation in hard turns.

Those older Ferraris were exotic in performance THEN. I think the final G bodies Esprits the HC cars, barely would break into the high 5 seconds to 60, if that. And they handled great for their day, but frankly there are some pretty pedestrian passenger cars out now, for little bucks that pull higher g's, would be faster through the slalom, and brake in shorter distances. Time marches on.

When you look at any older sports car, ANY...MG, Triumph, Lotus, Ferrari, Lambo...you have to assess it within the context of its era. Or do a resto mod.
Agreed - but theere is sooooooooo much more to ownership than skidpad numbers and 0-60 times. Always has been for me anyways. Many current cars will outperform exotics from even 10 years ago. But.... those cars dont have "it" and never will. They arent lusted after. They dont cause neck injuries. They are throw-away appliances and are somehow sterile and boring to me. They dont provide the overall driving experience/ownership experience than classic Lambos, Ferraris, & Lotuses do. Noone has a poster of a Hyuandai Turbo on their bedroom wall :)

Might sound silly, but its true.

You nailed it though by mentioning to take the time frame into context. Ive been in conversations where Ive been told that a modern C6 vette would run all over my little 4-banger Euro toy. I agree and then promptly reply: Go find an '87 Vette and we'll talk. Or, maybe we wont since my car would put a major hurting on an '87 Vette. And, its a million times better looking to boot :coolnana:

Of course!

Just wondering if, in 40 years, people will be saying 'man, how did we get so excited about those Pagani Zonda Rs that have the same performance as my 2052 Honda Futuro sedan?'

:)
Yeah - I wonder this too. Will we be lusting after current supercars from this era like we do from the 70's and 80's currently? Will we wonder how anyone could have gotten by with a plain-jane Gallardo or whatever? My the world has changed.

Lets reopen this thread in 30 years and see :d
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,534 Posts
Agreed - but theere is sooooooooo much more to ownership than skidpad numbers and 0-60 times. Always has been for me anyways. Many current cars will outperform exotics from even 10 years ago. But.... those cars dont have "it" and never will. They arent lusted after. They dont cause neck injuries. They are throw-away appliances and are somehow sterile and boring to me. They dont provide the overall driving experience/ownership experience than classic Lambos, Ferraris, & Lotuses do. Noone has a poster of a Hyuandai Turbo on their bedroom wall :)

Might sound silly, but its true.

You nailed it though by mentioning to take the time frame into context. Ive been in conversations where Ive been told that a modern C6 vette would run all over my little 4-banger Euro toy. I agree and then promptly reply: Go find an '87 Vette and we'll talk. Or, maybe we wont since my car would put a major hurting on an '87 Vette. And, its a million times better looking to boot :coolnana:



Yeah - I wonder this too. Will we be lusting after current supercars from this era like we do from the 70's and 80's currently? Will we wonder how anyone could have gotten by with a plain-jane Gallardo or whatever? My the world has changed.

Lets reopen this thread in 30 years and see :d
Yeah, Jane Fonda was hot as Barbarella four hundred years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
471 Posts
My brother has a 348 and I was googling lotus/ferrari while drinking coffee yesterday morning.... this SAME discussion (with specific comparrison to the elise) happened on ferrarichat.com in 2005. I revived the thread on that board. I would post it here, but am still a "new guy" here, and not sure about the policy linking to other car forums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,378 Posts
One of the first cars I did a full resto on was a '70 Dodge Charger. My cousin had one when I was in High School and I always wanted one. At the time it had what I thought was great performance. When I finished the car I was underwhelmed to say the least. It had mediocre acceleration and it wouldn't turn worth a nickel. After the first stop the brakes were done. Fast forward to 2006, that's when I finally got a Lotus Esprit and there is no comparison. Be careful what you ask for, you may get it!
David Teitelbaum
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Yesterday I got to finally take my first ride in a Ferrari 308. It was an 83 gtsi quatrovalve. So 240hp.
I have three vehicles currently:
96 jeep Cherokee xj
01 Porsche boxster with 33,000 miles.
And a 03 triumph speed four bike.
I have just started saving for more of an exotic car and the Ferrari was really all I ever wanted. About two years ago I started looking at the current market for ferraris and lotus. I still was heavily leaning toward a Ferrari. Either a 308 or 348. I still love the 348 but the 308 is out. It did nothing for me. It felt like my old Porsche 914 but more quirky. And I really dislike how ferrari has to slap the horse logo on practically everything in the car they can. It was even on the dash vents... rotfl
I always have liked the esprit but kinda forgot about them. I was just mesmerized by the horse.
Now I know better. I just can not see passing up an esprit se or s4 for the 308. Even though I haven't been in the lotus ever I also kinda feel I don't have to. I think it is just a car that makes a statement in a way Ferrari really cannot.
Plus massive credit for lotus to sticking with their proven design of light cars with not the most powerful engines on the market. They are real drivers cars in my opinion.
I love my boxster. And getting a lotus allows me to be able to keep it.
Some guy called "Driftfan" who owns a Porsche Boxster pans Ferrari's best looking/performing/handling/engineered/sounding and selling models of the 80's.

Hilarious.

You do know you have no soul dont you mate?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,886 Posts
Some guy called "Driftfan" who owns a Porsche Boxster pans Ferrari's best looking/performing/handling/engineered/sounding and selling models of the 80's.

Hilarious.

You do know you have no soul dont you mate?
Come to think of it...you are correct about the 308 and its praises. The 308 is forever. Period. I understand that young kids may find them outdated or slow. Thats fine. They'll eventually grow up and "get it". ;)

One of the first cars I did a full resto on was a '70 Dodge Charger. My cousin had one when I was in High School and I always wanted one. At the time it had what I thought was great performance. When I finished the car I was underwhelmed to say the least. It had mediocre acceleration and it wouldn't turn worth a nickel. After the first stop the brakes were done. Fast forward to 2006, that's when I finally got a Lotus Esprit and there is no comparison. Be careful what you ask for, you may get it!
David Teitelbaum
I totally agree with you, David. I had a 1970 GTO for a little while and I feel the same way.

I hate to even say this as to not start anything with musclecar guys...but musclecars to me just arent fun to drive at all. They cant turn, they cant stop, they get 4 mpg, the bench seats cause you to slide all over the place, & they make a lot of noise and end up being much slower than expected. They are cars that other people enjoy more than the owner does! They are cool to see drive by and make a nice V8 sound. But, I owned one and driving it wasnt much fun at all. They are also getting a little too popular. Everyone has a Chevelle or some GM A body car. Seeing one isnt so special anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
311 Posts
One thing I would say about modern cars, despite faster 0-60 times, is that they are heavy compared to cars of the 80's and even 90's and lack balance.

Go drive an old 80's E30 M3 (only 200hp) or even a Rabbit GTI to appreciate the light weight and balance of that era. It's hard to find now a days. I guess that's why we drive Lotus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,313 Posts
Yeah - I wonder this too. Will we be lusting after current supercars from this era like we do from the 70's and 80's currently? Will we wonder how anyone could have gotten by with a plain-jane Gallardo or whatever? My the world has changed.

Lets reopen this thread in 30 years and see :d
I think performance wise, we're probably at the golden age of automobiles (esp internal combustion). We're at the sweet spot where technology is sufficiently advanced to maximize efficiency and power while not yet limited by gasoline supply and regulatory restrictions. 30years from now, we'll all be riding in self-driving electric cars.

The hypercars today are so fast that they rival real race cars, I just don't see how they can get much faster...
 
1 - 20 of 55 Posts
Top