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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have a pretty fun thread going on over in the Elise section that lets us track the price trend of the Elise which is helpful for those of us who have one to be able to A) see what it's worth, and B) know how much to sell it for if we sell it. For those of us wanting an Elise it lets us know how much we should expect one to cost, how many miles we can expect to find on it, etc.

Here's the thread: http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f259/what-did-you-pay-your-elise-214258/

Obviously the more data the better because it's hard to get an accurate average with 2 or 3 samples. I just expanded the spreadsheet to include Exiges (see the bottom three tabs in Excel) so I need some Exige sales info from you guys.

Anyway here's the spreadsheet for those interested: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5kCnKVtnuShRVd0YXpBYnU0QkE/edit?usp=sharing (always download the spreadsheet using the arrow in the top left and open it in Excel b/c Google's web-viewer cuts off pages and doesn't allow interaction).

The link shouldn't change but I had to move it from Dropbox to Google Drive because Dropbox had a security issue not too long ago and my sheet was pulled down because it contained a link to Lotustalk.com (all spreadsheets, pdfs, etc with hyperlinks were flagged). If that link goes 404 in the future just look in my signature and I'll make sure to reply if it ever moves.

That said, what goes on the spreadsheet is the price you paid, the year you bought it, the mileage it had, and any options (touring, sport, lsd, light mods, heavy mods, etc). It's all anonymous in that nobody will know which is which - so if you don't feel like putting it out there how much you spent, feel free to send me a PM and I'll add it to the sheet.
 

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I take it you only want sales figures from private party folks and not sales figures from dealers, right?
 

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I think salvages should be removed from the spreadsheet since they taint the cars true value.

I see a couple of $20K low mileage elises in there...hard to believe they're clean.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think salvages should be removed from the spreadsheet since they taint the cars true value.

I see a couple of $20K low mileage elises in there...hard to believe they're clean.
I'm still trying to figure out how to handle the salvage cars... any suggestions? I'd like to keep them in the figures sheet but maybe not count them on the summary sheet? Have a separate list for salvages? Kind of going to end up cluttered if I add a whole new list on the summary page for salvaged titles.

Also - if anyone wants to come up with a working predicted mileage for given cost or predicted cost for given mileage they're more than welcome to and shoot me back the formulas and/or spreadsheet... I couldn't for the life of me figure it out...
 

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Personally, I find this and the other thread pretty useless, other than being a 'bottom feeder' bait shop......

First, there is a reason why most larger value tracking resources dont have much info on these cars.....they are thinly traded, and prices seem to vary widely based upon facets that are difficult to quantify.

Second, most of the data is based upon people showing what great deals they got, and I dont believe it encapsulates the actual overall market. I am not saying there arent 'deals' out there, but I dont think those deals are market prices for people to rely upon for an arms-length retail transaction.

Third, it seems the prices have been steadily rising, and so has the 'acceptable' mileage thresholds. A few years ago, they were priced much lower. And, going back before that, if a car had over 10k miles it was difficult to sell. Now people are buying them with 20k, 30k +++ miles.

Forth, the thread puts unrealistic numbers in play, whereby buyers just want to lowball because of what they read. Makes both buyers and sellers farther apart, and I just dont see the logic of trying to save a grand or two vs missing out.

Most importantly, I dont see them selling at the prices you show....... Finding a good car, in a good color, with a good pedigree just doesnt seem to match the 'data' being spewed out.....
 

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Personally, I find this and the other thread pretty useless, other than being a 'bottom feeder' bait shop......

First, there is a reason why most larger value tracking resources dont have much info on these cars.....they are thinly traded, and prices seem to vary widely based upon facets that are difficult to quantify.

Second, most of the data is based upon people showing what great deals they got, and I dont believe it encapsulates the actual overall market. I am not saying there arent 'deals' out there, but I dont think those deals are market prices for people to rely upon for an arms-length retail transaction.

Third, it seems the prices have been steadily rising, and so has the 'acceptable' mileage thresholds. A few years ago, they were priced much lower. And, going back before that, if a car had over 10k miles it was difficult to sell. Now people are buying them with 20k, 30k +++ miles.

Forth, the thread puts unrealistic numbers in play, whereby buyers just want to lowball because of what they read. Makes both buyers and sellers farther apart, and I just dont see the logic of trying to save a grand or two vs missing out.

I dont see them selling at the prices you show....... Finding a good car, in a good color, with a good pedigree just doesnt seem to match the 'data' being spewed out.....
+1.

San
 

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I think its helpful to spot trends. Having data is better than no data. I just hope bronco doesnt work for insurance!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
gosh you guys are conspiracy theorists! nope, I work at a car dealership - a domestic big-brand auto dealership run by the family. So no alternative agenda here.

First, there is a reason why most larger value tracking resources dont have much info on these cars.....they are thinly traded, and prices seem to vary widely based upon facets that are difficult to quantify.
I agree - but big value tracking resources only track those resources to turn around and sell them. There's not much money to be made selling info on vehicles that sell under 1k a year as opposed to say the Chevy Impala which sold over 150k last year (quick google results). Those figures are important to people to study markets and invest in markets - the figures of a niche sports car aren't really important to anyone.

Second, most of the data is based upon people showing what great deals they got, and I dont believe it encapsulates the actual overall market. I am not saying there arent 'deals' out there, but I dont think those deals are market prices for people to rely upon for an arms-length retail transaction.
I agree that some of the results are an oddly low-end number so I'm trying to figure out the best way to weight those averages and lop off certain numbers that fall below a threshold... say like the bottom 10%. Still working on that. Already figured out how to lop out the Salvaged titles while still including them on the page that contains all the data.

Third, it seems the prices have been steadily rising, and so has the 'acceptable' mileage thresholds. A few years ago, they were priced much lower. And, going back before that, if a car had over 10k miles it was difficult to sell. Now people are buying them with 20k, 30k +++ miles.
I don't see what that has to do with it being pointless or not - the numbers show that as well - it's an observation one can make by browsing the sheet for a few minutes.

Forth, the thread puts unrealistic numbers in play, whereby buyers just want to lowball because of what they read. Makes both buyers and sellers farther apart, and I just dont see the logic of trying to save a grand or two vs missing out.
I can't control how a person perceives it. It can go the other way also - people can browse the For Sale section and constantly see "optimistic" asking prices and assume they'll never afford one. On the other hand, that's not what those vehicles are selling for. There's a reason I haven't trolled Ebay or the Classified section and added those asking prices - because those asking prices aren't always what is actually paid for it. If someone sees the sheet and assumes they can get one for under $30k - so be it. It should be taken as "well the average price is under 30k... so maybe 28-32k is what I should expect to spend on one."

I dont see them selling at the prices you show....... Finding a good car, in a good color, with a good pedigree just doesnt seem to match the 'data' being spewed out.....
One person not seeing what nearly 75 people have seen first-hand is a bit of a stretch for my mind
 

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Sorry....although your responses are 'clever'.... the reality is your 'data' is skewed, unrealistic, and certainly not useful as a reliable resource.

Good luck to anyone thinking they can find a good car, good color, and good pedigree at those prices...... :shrug:
 

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Personally i find these threads very helpful. I have had 11 Ferrari's. A bunch of Porsche's. 3 Lambo's, a Pantera and 2 Lotus Esprit SE's.

I have no freaking clue how to figure out this Exige / Elise market. There are Exige's for sale right now with close to 60k miles on them for $40k. There are Exige's for sale with 18k miles on them, for $40k.
Elise's are just as confusing. Cams scarred. Weak transmissions and oils lines. Suspension bits that should be replaced and upgraded. I have a thread in the "insurance section" that is a few weeks old detailing how Hagerty refused to insure me with all my exotics cars history on an Exige as my daily driver is more than 5 years old. I spoke to 7 insurance companies today, and only ONE would give a quite on a Lotus Talk members Exige that is for sale.

I am in GA and have seen the nice cars Mr Wirewheel sells. I also know that a rebuilt title car is hard as hell to title in GA without a very long and expensive inspection process. So no salvage or rebuilt title cars for me.

Emissions are not an issue for me but they are for others so modded cars have an even more limited market.

So I for one would like to correlate some sales data, or I am going to just buy a Maserati. :) Cheers.
 

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Personally i find these threads very helpful. I have had 11 Ferrari's. A bunch of Porsche's. 3 Lambo's, a Pantera and 2 Lotus Esprit SE's.

I have no freaking clue how to figure out this Exige / Elise market. There are Exige's for sale right now with close to 60k miles on them for $40k. There are Exige's for sale with 18k miles on them, for $40k.
Elise's are just as confusing. Cams scarred. Weak transmissions and oils lines. Suspension bits that should be replaced and upgraded. I have a thread in the "insurance section" that is a few weeks old detailing how Hagerty refused to insure me with all my exotics cars history on an Exige as my daily driver is more than 5 years old. I spoke to 7 insurance companies today, and only ONE would give a quite on a Lotus Talk members Exige that is for sale.

...

So I for one would like to correlate some sales data, or I am going to just buy a Maserati. :) Cheers.
Somehow, someway, everyone thats bought one before you has figured it out... or maybe you're thinking too hard? :shrug:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sorry....although your responses are 'clever'.... the reality is your 'data' is skewed, unrealistic, and certainly not useful as a reliable resource.

Good luck to anyone thinking they can find a good car, good color, and good pedigree at those prices...... :shrug:
Not sure why you're criticizing something I described as "fun" in my original post by calling it 'clever' and keep mentioning pedigree and sarcastically putting everything in quotations... the Elise thread is in double digit pages now and everyone but you has seemed to enjoy it. I appreciate your concerns about the consistency and issues with things like price variations from normal buys, steals, and salvages - I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to average all of the info out.

It's not trying to be a reliable resource and I've never claimed it was going to be Kelly Blue Book for Lotuses. If you'd prefer not to contribute, that's fine.
 

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Not sure why you're criticizing something I described as "fun" in my original post by calling it 'clever' and keep mentioning pedigree and sarcastically putting everything in quotations... the Elise thread is in double digit pages now and everyone but you has seemed to enjoy it. I appreciate your concerns about the consistency and issues with things like price variations from normal buys, steals, and salvages - I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to average all of the info out.

It's not trying to be a reliable resource and I've never claimed it was going to be Kelly Blue Book for Lotuses. If you'd prefer not to contribute, that's fine.
Therein lies the rub..... you claim it is for "fun", but it is presented in a way whereby many people view it as a resource and a guide to values. However, clearly the data is skewed, unrealistic, and unreliable ..... fun for you, but misleading info is not fun for actual buyers or sellers.....

:(
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sorry I mistook your post as informative and a contribution to the thread. You probably didn't mean to come across as helpful. Just like you can't control how people use the information you post on the forums, I'm not going to claim responsibility or even pretend that there's intent behind the spreadsheet other than an exercise to track the prices people have paid for their cars.
 

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My posts are absolutely helpful.....

Bottom line, you are presenting info as a market resource, and it is being called out that it is inaccurate. The exposure that you are presenting misinformation is increadibly helpful to actual buyers and sellers.....
 

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I don't see how it hurts to keep a record of that. Unless you seriously overpaid and the numbers make you realize that? Then again if it's worth that to you then you didn't overpay. I don't think anyone is arguing clean cars don't fetch a higher price. They will never be a car like this again, and supply goes down every year. As they get older you see the cars pass on to more people who are true enthusiast. Not people who bought it because it's a cool new car at the time (they will move on to the next). Enthusiast tend to hold on to their baby's. Prices will rise. That said cars are historically bad "investments."
 
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