Wheel Bolt Thread Engagement
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Perhaps the answer to this question is actually industry defined and I don't know it, but the thing you're bolting into has a thickness. Let's just pretend its a regular nut since that is what it is acting like. If the bolt threads into the nut, but doesn't ever stick out the other side, how much thread engagement is that? I'm trying to understand if 'number of threads engaged' includes the thickness of the nut or only the threads sticking out the other side.....
Also, its different from front to back. On the front wheels mine had a couple threads sticking out, on the back there were none (on stock lss wheels). With my second set of wheels I sized the bolts so that there are a few threads sticking out both front and rear. Of course, that meas that the length of bolt you want is also dependent on the offset of the wheels you're using.
Also, its different from front to back. On the front wheels mine had a couple threads sticking out, on the back there were none (on stock lss wheels). With my second set of wheels I sized the bolts so that there are a few threads sticking out both front and rear. Of course, that meas that the length of bolt you want is also dependent on the offset of the wheels you're using.
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Why not replace with studs?, there's no worries after that.
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Actually that is my plan. There's a shorter stud that I kind of want to use, but I'm concerned about the number of thread engagements into the hub. The one I'm thinking about is the 45mm stud:
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Yea, that looks too short to me, one aspect of studs being that you have threads that show on the other side of the nut so you know the nut is fully engaged. That 45mm one looks too short on both ends.
I've seen cars not pass tech at the track when there's little to no thread past the outside of the nut, I've also seen studs ripped out that weren't installed and or fitted correctly...
Not something you want to screw up.
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Go to sector111's site, look at the length to width ratio of their wheel studs, the rest is basic analysis.
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I previously had Sector111's studs and they're too long for my application. I just want a shorter stud for looks as well as the very miniscule weight savings. The 45mm is long enough for my wheel and lugnut combo, but the hub side is sketchy. These are my second choice: M12x1.5 ACS Race Stud - 65mm
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Screw that. Go with the slightly longer studs as they help to "hang" your wheels while you cinch them down with the nuts. I'd go with the BWR (ARP) studs (actually I did). You'll still save weight over the stock hardware.
San
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Don't get short studs. Over time, you'll wind up using different wheels and/or spacers. You don't want to wind up having to change the studs to accommodate this. Then get yourself a 1/4" battery operated impact wrench and a 17mm deep socket. Then you won't care how many extra threads there are on the stud.
EDIT: I probably don't need to remind anyone, but always use a breaker bar to initially "break" the nuts on disassembly, always hand thread the nuts a turn or two onto the studs on reassembly, use the impact wrench just to "snug" the nuts onto the wheel, and use a proper torque wrench to apply final torque.
EDIT: I probably don't need to remind anyone, but always use a breaker bar to initially "break" the nuts on disassembly, always hand thread the nuts a turn or two onto the studs on reassembly, use the impact wrench just to "snug" the nuts onto the wheel, and use a proper torque wrench to apply final torque.
Wheel studs
Good info on the thread...
The studs hold your wheels on, so when one comes loose, it is not good, especially, since there are only 4. Good advice all around. From my racing book:
1. The thread engagement should be a minimum of the fastener diameter. Hence, 12mm stud means at least 12mm of thread in the nut or hole on both ends. Any more makes the engaged part stronger than the stud, so does not hurt for safety, but does not add anything. Hence wheel nuts are 12mm tall or more.
2. Stud material and construction is important. Hence, buy from a reputable vendor. Check the rating (10 or 12 metric and Grade 8 SAE).
3. There is a rating for thread quality.
4. threads should be rolled and shoulders undercut for stress relieve. (Above pics look right).
5. Titanium is a questionable material, if lots of taking on/off is required. But this is a religious argument, here.
6. Using breaker bar to crack the nuts is excessive. This also depends on your strength. If I had to do that, I would pull the stud out or damage the threads. Impact wrenches are a bad idea, also, for same reason. They tend to damage the thread. using them to spin the nut on or off is OK, but not to beat on it.
7. Studs and nuts have to be installed and torqued properly. The strength of the stud relies on the pre-tension opposite to the force applied by the nut. (Not so important for wheels, not enough load... maybe..)
Anton
Good info on the thread...
The studs hold your wheels on, so when one comes loose, it is not good, especially, since there are only 4. Good advice all around. From my racing book:
1. The thread engagement should be a minimum of the fastener diameter. Hence, 12mm stud means at least 12mm of thread in the nut or hole on both ends. Any more makes the engaged part stronger than the stud, so does not hurt for safety, but does not add anything. Hence wheel nuts are 12mm tall or more.
2. Stud material and construction is important. Hence, buy from a reputable vendor. Check the rating (10 or 12 metric and Grade 8 SAE).
3. There is a rating for thread quality.
4. threads should be rolled and shoulders undercut for stress relieve. (Above pics look right).
5. Titanium is a questionable material, if lots of taking on/off is required. But this is a religious argument, here.
6. Using breaker bar to crack the nuts is excessive. This also depends on your strength. If I had to do that, I would pull the stud out or damage the threads. Impact wrenches are a bad idea, also, for same reason. They tend to damage the thread. using them to spin the nut on or off is OK, but not to beat on it.
7. Studs and nuts have to be installed and torqued properly. The strength of the stud relies on the pre-tension opposite to the force applied by the nut. (Not so important for wheels, not enough load... maybe..)
Anton
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My reason for suggesting the breaker bar is because, IMHO, it's easier to make sure you're applying force in the plane of the threads, and not otherwise tweaking the studs. It doesn't have to be a gigantic breaker bar, just somewhat longer than the standard ratchet handle. And agreed, I never "break" the nuts with the impact wrench, and I intentionally use a small, low torque impact wrench so that it's easy to just snug them up to the wheel.
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Thanks for all the feedback. I ended up ordering the 65mm ACS studs.
I also use a breaker bar to undo the nuts, but I don't apply more force than necessary. I'm weak enough that I wouldn't be able to break the nuts with a standard rachet.
I also use a breaker bar to undo the nuts, but I don't apply more force than necessary. I'm weak enough that I wouldn't be able to break the nuts with a standard rachet.
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