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Discussion Starter #1
Purchased the elise parts stud kit.

Instructions:
Stud Conversion Kit
1) Throughly clean
2) Apply Loctite to 1st 3 threads
3) Install 4 studs into hub hand tightened
4) Use Locknut to tighten each stud to 65 ft lbs
5) Leave 10mins
6) Copper slip and wheel nuts torqued to 60 ft lbs

Step 4 is in question. I can only get 20 ft lbs and the thread will keep going until it hits the inner hub assembly!

Does anyone know the general rule of thumb regarding the stud swap such as how much torque is required for the studs?

Scared to drive my car out at the moment...

Thanks in advance.
mag
 

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I never torqued the studs in at all. Just apply loctite, and screw them in all the way by hand.
 

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Yeah, I would agree... when you put the wheel on and install/torque the lug nuts, that will "tension" the entire stud (both where it is screwed into the hub and where the nut is seated).

If by "copper slip" you mean anti-seize, you shouldn't use this at all on lug nuts or lug bolts. It is ok to smear a very light coating where the wheel meets the hub (good for alloy wheels against a steel hub), but not the bolts/studs themselves. The lubricating effect of the anti-seize causes you to create too much tension on the bolt/stud/threads.
 

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4) Use Locknut to tighten each stud to 65 ft lbs

Step 4 is in question. I can only get 20 ft lbs and the thread will keep going until it hits the inner hub assembly!
I believe what they are referring to in this instruction is to lock a pair of nuts together on the stud and then use your torque wrench on the top nut to tighten the stud to 65 lbs/ft. This is a common method used to install studs without damaging the threads on them.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
just confirmed with vendor. using locknut method to tighten the stud to 18~20ft lbs.
Not sure what kind of studs others have threaded in by hand but the studs Im using have a flat spot (few threads in) on end that goes into hub. hub threads dig into this and create a seal.

on copper slip, in my experience have learned are put on end of nuts so when torqued, the grease allows the nuts to tighten to the correct torque, as opposed to allowing nuts to over torque.
 

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on copper slip, in my experience have learned are put on end of nuts so when torqued, the grease allows the nuts to tighten to the correct torque, as opposed to allowing nuts to over torque.
That is just it... by using a lubricant you ARE over torquing. While the rotational force is the same (as measured by the torque wrench), the tension (shearing force placed on the threads) is much greater when using a lubricant such as grease, anti-seize or "copper slip".

In applications that call for the use of anti-seize, it would be specifically noted and have a lower torque specification.
 

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I typically use some type of corrosion preventative on wheel bolts or studs- including the lotus (mine has studs). It's not over torqueing if the torque spec called for lubrication to begin with. Moreover, lube of somekind helps to ensure a similar torque each time the fastener is torqued. There's a lot of friction that can vary on tapered wheel bolts or lug nuts depending on the conditon of the paint, finish, and pre-exisitng corrosion. IMO, you're far better off to apply some lubricant when torquing wheel fasteners than not to ensure adequate bolt stretch and not simple friction tightening, as the latter will likely fail. If you're worried about over torqueing the bolt passed yield, then do a little research ensure you're not going to do so... To date, I've not found that any factory torque specs achieved with lube will "over torque" the lug/bolt.

Regarding stud installation, don't torque the studs to much more than snug or you'll ruin the the threads in the hub. The rib where the threads change direction will drill it's way into the carrier threads with anything more than snug tightening...

Best,

Best,

Phil
 

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It's not over torqueing if the torque spec called for lubrication to begin with.
That is why in my above post I stated "In applications that call for the use of anti-seize, it would be specifically noted".

Moreover, lube of somekind helps to ensure a similar torque each time the fastener is torqued. There's a lot of friction that can vary on tapered wheel bolts or lug nuts depending on the conditon of the paint, finish, and pre-exisitng corrosion.
Consistency comes from having good clean threads that are well machined to fit properly. Having clean well machined threads on both surfaces is very important to achieving the proper stretch and thus shearing loads on the threads. Adding a lubricant to the equation does increase the stretch for a given dry torque specification.
 

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Consistency comes from having good clean threads that are well machined to fit properly. Having clean well machined threads on both surfaces is very important to achieving the proper stretch and thus shearing loads on the threads. Adding a lubricant to the equation does increase the stretch for a given dry torque specification.
I hear ya, the problem with tapered wheel lugs or bolts is that the friction from the taper can really screw up the torque depending on the condition of the metals, finish, and environment (causing corrosion). I choose to err on the side of a little anti-sieze and still torque to factory specs. I've had great success with that technique and it keeps the two dissimilar metals from galling... and the stock wheel bolts have a reputation for doing this on the stock wheels... I've not seen the problem with studs, but then again I've always used a tab of anti-seize with them. :D

If anything, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm simply stating that the studs or wheel bolts I've delt with have *never* failed due to over torque and I've nearly always used a lube of some kind to ensure consistent torque.

The only times I've seen or had problems with studs either breaking or bolts gulling (cold welding) to a wheel (read, Fail in anyway) is in the absence of lube---anit-seize in particular...

Best,

Phil
 

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I hear ya, the problem with tapered wheel lugs or bolts is that the friction from the taper can really screw up the torque depending on the condition of the metals, finish, and environment (causing corrosion). I choose to err on the side of a little anti-sieze and still torque to factory specs. I've had great success with that technique and it keeps the two dissimilar metals from galling... and the stock wheel bolts have a reputation for doing this on the stock wheels... I've not seen the problem with studs, but then again I've always used a tab of anti-seize with them. :D

If anything, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm simply stating that the studs or wheel bolts I've delt with have *never* failed due to over torque and I've nearly always used a lube of some kind to ensure consistent torque.

The only times I've seen or had problems with studs either breaking or bolts gulling (cold welding) to a wheel (read, Fail in anyway) is in the absence of lube---anit-seize in particular...

Best,

Phil
+1
 

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If anything, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm simply stating that the studs or wheel bolts I've delt with have *never* failed due to over torque and I've nearly always used a lube of some kind to ensure consistent torque.

The only times I've seen or had problems with studs either breaking or bolts gulling (cold welding) to a wheel (read, Fail in anyway) is in the absence of lube---anit-seize in particular...
Yeah, if anything I guess I am being too textbook in my reply. The ME (mechanical engineer) in me. :D In real world use, the factor of safety will come into play and keep things together.

Gulling is definitely a problem, that is why I above I mentioned putting a thin coat of anti-seize on the surface of the hub that contacts the wheel.

The biggest problem I see with wheel bolts/nuts is people cross threading them. They need a good :thwack: !
 

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The biggest problem I see with wheel bolts/nuts is people cross threading them. They need a good :thwack: !
That's where you're wrong:D Here's something they won't teach you in your Applied Mechanics class nor will it be on your PE exam... Cross threading is the single best form of loctite you can getrotfl

Cheers,

Phil

PS- I've still got my old S.A.E. (not the Greek variety) card floating around someplace...
 
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