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Discussion Starter #1
has anyone here driven both cars and give first hand experience???...just wondering how careful I need to be with LSS car at track since I heard S1 was very over-steery.
 

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Just don't do sudden lifts at critical times and you'll be fine. Maybe try out the car in an autocross setting so you can get a sense of the car's behavior and how it responds to corrections. It's very stable. To spin it you'd most likely have to screw up somewhere.
 

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Stan said:
Just don't do sudden lifts at critical times and you'll be fine. Maybe try out the car in an autocross setting so you can get a sense of the car's behavior and how it responds to corrections. It's very stable. To spin it you'd most likely have to screw up somewhere.

but Stan, in yoour opinion, which would have more oversteer?
 

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If I remember correctly Stan has the standard suspension...
 

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The S1.
the LSS is not front traction biased compared to standard set up.
Lotus have dialed in base understeer to make the S2 model range more forgiving in unskilled hands.
The LSS merely has more potential traction over the standard suspension with the same balance.
The S1 in stock form has less balance of front to rear traction.
m.
 

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Both LTS and LSS are understeering cars. Neither one specifically oversteers at the limit. You can make either understeer less or even oversteer by how you drive the car. The LSS is less forgiving of driver error (as in sudden lifts at inopportune times) since there is less inherent understeer to cover up any indiscretions or errors. The LSS car also has a bit different wheel alignment settings. Either car can be aligned to the other's base settings.

In a mid engine car sudden lifts by the inexperienced can cause a spin. I say inexperienced cuz after this happens once or twice and you discover that keeping some throttle on stabilizes the car you don't do those sorts of things anymore. For example if you're cornering at the limit and are starting to add gas past the apex, you can spin if you suddenly lift when you realize that you early apexed and are running out of track out pavement. In such a case it is better NOT to lift so that you don't spin and instead drive through the situation.

It's a good idea to play around with this stuff in an empty wet parking lot or at an autocross or something before you try high speed heroics.
 

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Stan said:
For example if you're cornering at the limit and are starting to add gas past the apex, you can spin if you suddenly lift when you realize that you early apexed and are running out of track out pavement. In such a case it is better NOT to lift so that you don't spin and instead drive through the situation.
If you just early apexed at close to the limit then driving through the situation means going off the track. This may or may not be OK, depending on what happens to be at corner exit off the track.
I think it would be much wiser to do some line recovery and at least try to keep it on the pavement. At least you should be able to have less of an off.
When I've never driven a track before I try to apex a bit late while I'm learning. It's a whole lot easier to steer out to exit than to steer back onto the course.
 

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>>>If you just early apexed at close to the limit then driving through the situation means going off the track. This may or may not be OK, depending on what happens to be at corner exit off the track. I think it would be much wiser to do some line recovery and at least try to keep it on the pavement. At least you should be able to have less of an off. When I've never driven a track before I try to apex a bit late while I'm learning. It's a whole lot easier to steer out to exit than to steer back onto the course.<<<

I agree. As you are dealing with the situation just don't suddenly fully lift your foot of the gas pedal. That will likely lead to a spin and a scary situation at the least. If you relatively slowly reduce gas pedal pressure this will leave you with more control options. I'm talking about a full, sudden lift versus a *partial* lift steadily and evenly reduced over about a 1/2 second - 1 second. If you do get two wheels off, don't jerk the wheel and instantly try to get back on track either. That has to be done more carefully than many anticipate.
 

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Just my 2 cents. I find this thread original question confusing.

It's a mid-engined car. As such, it can easily oversteer if not driven properly. The same can be said for the LSS and non-LSS cars.

Would you really go to a track and not think about that because someone said it was less tail happy? I mean... I would be testing the limits and making sure I stayed in them. You need to find out YOUR handling limits in this car. If you go into a corner too hot or have excessive slip angles, YOU will induce understeer. You can make almost any car understeer if you drive it that way. If you lift or brake in a turn or upset the car, you can induce oversteer.

The car will tend to oversteer when the cams come on.

P.S. Late apex almost everything.
 

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>>>just wondering how careful I need to be with LSS car at track since I heard S1 was very over-steery.<<<

Another point of reference is Lotus themselves....they decided to make the Elise less snappy for most people. Among other things they added a front sway bar (the S1 had none, at least at first) and they changed alignment and hard parts. They also now use relatively larger rear tires it appears.
 

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Stan.
Do you left foot brake?
If you do, hows the balance of the car in high speed Vs. Low speed cornering under LFB?

I have not had the opportunity to drive these cars at 10/10ths.
m.
 

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My personal experience, the car is very neutral handling in all situations other than a sudden lift while cornering at the limit. In that situation, have an extra pair of undergarments:D
 

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I think Randy has a good point, does the car understeer or oversteer, the answer is yes. I all depends on what you are doing with the steering wheel, gas pedal and brake at any given moment and in a given situation. A friend was complaining about his car understeering at an autocross about 6 weeks ago, I took him around the course and had the tail out a lot. I think with the Elise you can easily make the car do what you want including understeer and oversteer. But then again that is true with most fairly well balanced sports cars with the traction control off.
The question is what do you want the car to do in a given situation?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Randy Chase said:
Just my 2 cents. I find this thread original question confusing.

It's a mid-engined car. As such, it can easily oversteer if not driven properly. The same can be said for the LSS and non-LSS cars.

Would you really go to a track and not think about that because someone said it was less tail happy? I mean... I would be testing the limits and making sure I stayed in them. You need to find out YOUR handling limits in this car. If you go into a corner too hot or have excessive slip angles, YOU will induce understeer. You can make almost any car understeer if you drive it that way. If you lift or brake in a turn or upset the car, you can induce oversteer.

The car will tend to oversteer when the cams come on.

P.S. Late apex almost everything.

Im not sure why you think the original question was confusing...its a imple question, which car has more oversteer tendencies...the question was not which car would oversteer with liftoff in a corner cause of course they both would along with many other cars...my question was which of these two cars had this tendency to a greater degree...lastly, of course I would need to find my handling limits of the car at track but isnt that a givin???..:confused: :confused:
 

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>>>its a imple question, which car has more oversteer tendencies<<

Then the answer is neither, they both understeer, as mentioned above. As folks have been pointing out it's the transitions and what you do with the loud pedal that can lead to oversteer. That is under the control of the driver, not the car. Some have found some corner exit oversteer when you hit Lift. That too is under the driver's control.

If you are concerned about snap oversteer after getting used to the car you could realign it with some more rear toe in for example and play with tire pressures and the like.

It is starting to appear that more front bar would help in Stock Class autocross and that would tend to stabilize things too when in those sorts of conditions that encourage oversteer.
 
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