The Lotus Cars Community banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
With all of the uproar over the MSRP increase, I wanted to see if people are actually going to pull there deposits. Only post if you will be requesting your deposit back or selling your spot/car.

I plan on waiting out the market and seeing if demand remains strong, if it does I will flip the first car I recieve and keep the second. If the demand slips and the used market sells for below MSRP I will get both of my deposits back and buy a used Elise in '06.

FYI- I am probably 6-12 months away from delivery and have not ordered either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
609 Posts
bboersma said:
...Only post if you will be requesting your deposit back or selling your spot/car.
Oops! I guess I just can't follow instructions.

bboersma said:
...seeing if demand remains strong, if it does I will flip the first car I recieve and keep the second...
Your are a part of the problem. Why do you think we would assist your decision making by providing you with helpful information to aid in your attempt to exploit the market at the expense of list holders? :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I am not looking for any inside "information" just simply wondering if the price increase has had any tangible impact on the # of deposits, or if as expected it just gave everyone the opportunity to vent on delays, dealer issues, etc.

As for being part of the problem, I am sure I am behind 70-90% of the people on this board so it really doesn't impact them and if the delays continue I will probably not see my car until Fall '05 in which case it might as well be spring '06 as I live in Chicago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
Wow...you might even be farther down the list than I am (at FVMC even). I suspect that by the time we are asked for orders the price will be high enough that I will bail out. Either that or I'm going to be worried that they are going to crank the price on me AFTER I've made my order and put down another $2500 in unrefundable deposit money. Either way, I'm starting to think that my 5+ year dream of owning an Elise is not going to happen.

Kind of depressing...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
An additional hit will be when insurance companies realize what the elise is and juice us on that end, and when interest rates pop 2%+ (I am planning on financing 30-50%).

If your logic runs as some on the board, the poll on the price increase was seen as a reason to increase MSRP then maybe this thread could show Lotus that many people are going to be dropping out.

I don't believe that the demand for the Elise is as great as many enthusiast believe and that for many people this is a reach second car, and that if many people on the list "give up" prices could fall pretty quickly.

The S2000 was easily getting $5-$10k over MSRP when it came out and it lasted for quite a while, it appears that the Lotus is already having trouble sustaining the $5k over MSRP according to EBAY auctions.

At least it is starting to get cold here so the next 6 months are a wash, all I have to look forward to is an additional delay or another increase in MSRP!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
It pains me to say it, but I'm no longer an Elise deposit holder. Just called and asked for my deposit back.

Farewell Elisetalk - back to Spyderchat for me, I suppose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
758 Posts
Nochmal said:
Wow...you might even be farther down the list than I am (at FVMC even). I suspect that by the time we are asked for orders the price will be high enough that I will bail out. Either that or I'm going to be worried that they are going to crank the price on me AFTER I've made my order and put down another $2500 in unrefundable deposit money. Either way, I'm starting to think that my 5+ year dream of owning an Elise is not going to happen.

Kind of depressing...
Sure it's kinda depressing. The price raise isn't something to laugh and have a song and dance about. It sucks.

But, just ask yourself: is the car still worth it to you ? If it is, then Lotus deserves the extra money. If it isn't worth it, it's really not the end of the world. There's a whole load of great cars for the same price.

I'm not sure I'd go above $45k for the base model. If it hit that, I'd get myself a TT and an old mini for fun :) I'd be upset that I couldn't get the Elise, but hey, sh1t happens. I'm not going to blame Lotus. Even if they raise the price to $50K for no reason but greed, thats there choice. I'll just say a few naughty words (it's fun to vent), and go elsewhere.

At the moment, the Elise is still worth it for me. It's an excellent car. Lotus still has my business.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Cordolf said:
It pains me to say it, but I'm no longer an Elise deposit holder. Just called and asked for my deposit back.

Farewell Elisetalk - back to Spyderchat for me, I suppose.
This is the right attitude for those who are pissed at the MSRP increase. Rather than complain about the increase simply cancel your order if you can. I do not understand why those who complain about the MSRP increase and can cancel their order are still on the wating list for the Elise.

It seems to me that deposit holders have two choices: 1. Either take the MSRP increase and live with it or 2. Cancel your order if you can get your deposit back.

I have a feeling that there will be many more MSRP increases. If some cars are selling for 60K, then expect MSRP increases in the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,464 Posts
nj1266 said:
I have a feeling that there will be many more MSRP increases. If some cars are selling for 60K, then expect MSRP increases in the future.
I don't have the same feeling as you do.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6312&item=2488106442&rd=1

not a single bid in 7 days, granted no touring nor anything, but no one wanted to even bid $48K to get the car from our eliser resident dentist.

Old MSRP + dest + tax was $43,227 as computed by atyclb, so it only was $4,773 markup for a car in say... Nov/Dec since Oct sounds very optimistic to me.

Plus, it seems he had to also pay an extra $1,800 "dealer fee" so that puts the profit before the MSRP increase to $2973.

If it had gone through it would be just under $2k if you factor in the taxes.

Getting $60K for a car is a thing of the past. Depreciation happens, there was not enougth volume for it to occur, but that is going to change fast.

Edit:

Some more examples:

Sold for $50,995 MSRP for those options is $44,200 around $7k over.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6312&item=2488107307&rd=1


This one sold at $49,600K or $5,600 over MSRP since it has the stone chip protection 3M shield.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6312&item=2488091897&rd=1

The whole appreciation thing is vastly exagerated :)

2nd Edit:

the MSRPs I used to compute those margins were the old ones, on the main example it would have been only $2k profit due to the MSRP change.

3rd and last Edit before someone points it out:

I didn't factor taxes on the last two because they were sold through dealerships (not Lotus dealers I think but acura and something else). So, the taxes and fees would have to be paid by whoever bought the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,438 Posts
Gromit said:
There's a whole load of great cars for the same price.

I'll give you the S2k, the Boxter and the Corvette- I don't want any of those even if they're not in the same price range. What other cars are there? I'm having a hard time coming up with any. I drove the demo again today during lunch. Afterwards, I stopped by Brumos Porsche to see if by some chance they had any 993's to temp my soul. They did'nt, but if they had a 993 C2 w/ semi low mileage, I'd still be looking at the high 50's -low 60's for a nice one.

I'm honestly coming up empty on legitimate substitutes for the Elise that offer the driving experience it does for approximately the same dough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,802 Posts
Had a vauxhall powered caterham that was an absolute blast, unfortunately wasn't at all usable as a daily driver, reckon the elise is as close as you can get to a cat 7 and still have some practicality, like locks ,etc.
Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
758 Posts
_JD_ said:
I'm honestly coming up empty on legitimate substitutes for the Elise that offer the driving experience it does for approximately the same dough.
Of course you can't. Niether can I. Thats why we're buying the Elise.

But if push comes to shove, one of those other cars are still great :)

I'm actually tempted by the old mini; but only if the Elise drops out of the picture :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Seems like there are a lot of us who can'r follow rules about who can post on this thread :).

I have a deposit, expected delivery date is July 2005. I do have other choices, and if MSRP keeps rising, and the market and dealership keep acting as crazy as it is, then there will be a car that is not an Elise in my future. Here are a few of my alternatives. Now, mind you, these are alternatives for ME, and may not be alternatives for anyone else.

Lotus Elise. Pros: short track performance par excellence, novelty and WOW factor like no other (for now, at least), fair cost (for now, anyway). Cons: Lotus rep for poor reliability, current feedback of poor service and parts support, definitely not a daily driver.

Caterham 7: Excellent track car close to Elise (maybe even better depending on set-up), classic looks with WOW factor, can get in and out normally. Cons: whose going to service it when it's not DIY?

Boxster S. Pros: Excellent track performance, excellent daily drivability, Porsche reliability and service, priced below MSRP. Cons: You can't turn around and not see one, still slightly more expensive than the Elise (for now, anyway).

Honda S2000. Pros: Excellent performer, outstanding Honda reliability, excellent service and support, excellent daily driver, a LOT cheaper than the Elise. Cons: it's a Honda, not in the same track performance league.

There are others: The Audi TT Quattro, BMW M coupe, MB 33AMG or the new SLK55 AMG, old Z06 or new Z06 when it comes out.....etc. We can even throw in the Mitsu Evo, or - surprise! - the Mazda MP3 (see R&T article )

The Elise will be strictly a weekend fun car and a street legal track car for me, so I'm hanging on in the waiting list. For now, anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
don't forget

in your list of other cars, the Crossfire SRT6. The original, way underpowered car is an excellent handler, posting very high slalom speeds in R &T. Good lateral grip. Outstanding braking. Perhaps the most rigid platforms in its class.

The SRT6 will have 330 hp, and even better handling.

It is NOT in the Elise class overall...they are way different cars. Not suggesting it as an Elise alternative. The Crossfire also is quite loaded with amenities.

Still, the SRT 6 will run with the S2000, Boxster (non S) and even the last iteration of the Vette. Will run and hide from the TT Quatro. It should and can be spoken about in the same breath as those cars and the BMW sedans.

Don't laugh, go drive one. You won't give up your spot in the Elise line...but you will be quite surprised indeed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
Surprisingly, I'm feeling a lot less enthusiastic about the Elise after the test-drive. It's not so much that the car didn't match my expectations, but that it brought home the reality of it.

It's going to be a $51,000 car out the door. That means different things to different people -- but to me, it's a lot to spend on a car. More than any other car I've bought. For some here, I know it's the cheapest car they will ever buy, and it's certainly the cheapest car to grace some showroom floors. That makes for some conflicting perspectives. :) But mine is the only one that counts to me.

The $2500 dealer markup plus $945 Lotus Bonus don't make it easier to rationalize the purchase.

This car will likely depreciate faster than anything I've owned, especially if the Lotus reliability lives up to its reputation. (Early indications are not favorable, I'd say.) That makes the $/smile ratio pretty high.

So.. I'm trying to come to grips with the fact that I'm no pro racer, yet I want to spend $51k on a car that handles better than I could ever appreciate and looks simply stunning. That's not easy to admit.

The strongest Plan B contender is to go buy a Miata (used, new, doesn't really matter) or MR2 spyder, sit out the Elise frenzy for a year or two, enjoy some mountain drives, and work on my track skills. When I feel like the Miata has little left to teach me, then revisit the Elise situation and see if I can get a better deal. I just don't see this level of pricing and insanity lasting more than a year or two. It's a gamble, sure.. the MSRP could continue skyward or the frenzy could rise to a fever pitch in two years.. hard for me to guess -- I know nothing of these things and my stock broker tells me I'm very poor at predicting people or markets.

I also think I'm the only person here who also thinks the 2.5mph bumper sounds like a very dandy feature.

So I'm waffling. Right now it costs nothing to sit and see. The longer it takes to arrive, the more inclined I am to pass on the $dealer markup$ and wait the rest of the list for MSRP. If, by then, the reliability hasn't been shown, I'll just get something Japanese instead.

I certainly feel more relaxed about it, having gotten the test-drive out of my system and come to grips with a very long delay..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,293 Posts
Palting said:
Caterham 7: Excellent track car close to Elise (maybe even better depending on set-up), classic looks with WOW factor, can get in and out normally. Cons: whose going to service it when it's not DIY?
The Caterham is a great car and would have been my choice if the Elise was not available but you have obviously never sat in one or you would not have said "can get in and out normally" the thing does not even have doors, it makes getting in and out of an Elise look easy:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Patricko said:
The Caterham is a great car and would have been my choice if the Elise was not available but you have obviously never sat in one or you would not have said "can get in and out normally" the thing does not even have doors, it makes getting in and out of an Elise look easy:)
I've actually driven one at BeaveRun. There were several that day, and they had their own run group. The door opening is like the old Jeep, a cutout off the side. And, YES, it does have doors. You just have to order it with one. And, you can actually get in like a normal person, put one foot in, sit down, put the other foot in. In the Elise, it's like trying to get in via an escape hatch or getting on the pommel horse. Put one foot in, one hand on the door sill and another on the wheel, support yourself on both arms as you lift your butt and put the other foot in, then slide in. I kinda like the novelty of it, but wouldn't like it for the daily drive to work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,802 Posts
Palting,
You've obviously never tried getting a cat7 with the top up. not the easiest thing in the world either!:)
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top