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Discussion Starter #1
I see bikes with true dual exhausts and wonder why 4's aren't made this
way for cars. (Q assumes cost not any issue)

Wouldn't a v-4 create less NVH inherent in straight 4's.
Also, a v-4 would sit lower in the car as well . . . rights?

-Robert
 

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A V4 requires two cylinder head castings requiring more camshafts, rocker arms, chains, etc.. and subsequently dual exhausts. Since the use of 4-cyl engines are mostly for budget applications, this is a significant downside to a V design. Obviously VW has long moved away from the flat 4 concept for these same reasons.

It doesn't really solve any packaging issues either (although a V4 in the Elise would allow for a longitudinal gearbox that would be easier to service). Obviously VW has long moved away from the flat 4 concept for these same reasons.

I don't think there is a V angle that would improve inherent vibration in any significant way.

I believe Lancia produced a V4 engine from the pre-war era all the way into the 1960s. The Saab Sonnet had a V4 (sourced from Ford UK) as well.
 

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There's a few reasons --

1 - They're much easier to make in an inline configuration. It also requires fewer parts to manufacture
2 - Physical dimension - A V-4 requires a larger physical space to occupy
3 - The V-4 (and boxer 4) are pretty rough and from a physics standpoint, are offbalance. If you bolt it to a stiff chassis, the car will rumble around quite a bit (think of the old Porsche 914).

I can go into a bit more detail if you like, but that's the short and sweet answer.
 

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In line 4 are cheap and easy are a good form factor FWD cars. 1 cyl head saves a lot of money.

the 180deg "v4" boxer motor in subarus are pretty smooth. I wish the motor in my exige-S was as nice as the motor in my station wagon..
 

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I think the Subaru incorporates a balance shaft. Also, a flat 4 has certain packaging advantages (length of the crankcase casting in a longitudinal orientation) and also significantly lowers the center of gravity. Obviously Subaru has decided this outweighs certain cost issues for their overall marketing strategy. Definitely a nice motor, although I wish they offered a flat 6.
 

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Ford made a V4. It's most widely know use was in the Saab Sonnett.

Besides the added manufacturing costs for the engine you needed additional accessories - larger intake manifold, 2 exhaust manifolds, etc.



With the Saab there were two exhaust systems, one for each bank of cylinders. They dumped out onto the each side so you would only hear 2 cylinders on a side. They sounded "strange", like running your lawn mower.

Ford Germany designed the engine and used it in many cars - From Wiki:
The Taunus V4 was a V4 piston engine with one balance shaft, introduced by Ford Motor Company in Germany in 1962. The German V4 was built in the Cologne plant and powered the Ford Taunus and German versions of the Granada, Capri and Transit.

In common with other V4 and V6 engines, but unlike longer V engines with more cylinders, the connecting rods do not share a crankpin on the crankshaft.

The V4 was later expanded into the Ford Cologne V6 engine that was used in the Ford Capri, Ford Taunus, Ford Cortina, Ford Consul, Ford Granada, Ford Sierra, Ford Scorpio, Ford Ranger, Ford Explorer and many other cars. The V4 engine was (and still is) also used in industrial applications: pumps, electrical generators, and in agricultural machinery. In automobiles, the Taunus V4 was replaced by the Ford OHC/Pinto engine.

Cheers,
Kiyoshi
 

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A V4 requires two cylinder head castings requiring more camshafts, rocker arms, chains, etc.. and subsequently dual exhausts. Since the use of 4-cyl engines are mostly for budget applications, this is a significant downside to a V design. Obviously VW has long moved away from the flat 4 concept for these same reasons.

It doesn't really solve any packaging issues either (although a V4 in the Elise would allow for a longitudinal gearbox that would be easier to service). Obviously VW has long moved away from the flat 4 concept for these same reasons.

I don't think there is a V angle that would improve inherent vibration in any significant way.

I believe Lancia produced a V4 engine from the pre-war era all the way into the 1960s. The Saab Sonnet had a V4 (sourced from Ford UK) as well.
Eric, the Lancia V4 actually only had one cylinder head.

It was a very narrow angle V4 with cylinders that almost overlapped each other.

Clever little engine, it wasnt as smooth as a 90 or 60 degree V6 though, but it was very compact, I think it may have been the first V4 ever produced.

The Ford V4 was a horrible engine, as rough as a bears arse, they were used mostly in delivery vans (Transit) but Ford also put them in Corsairs and some Zephyrs.

The Ford V4 as actually a V6 with two cylinders missing, and ran like a V6 with two plug leads disconnected.

 

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Discussion Starter #8
Would v-4 sound better than our 2zz-ge?

?
 

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I think the Subaru incorporates a balance shaft. Also, a flat 4 has certain packaging advantages (length of the crankcase casting in a longitudinal orientation) and also significantly lowers the center of gravity. Obviously Subaru has decided this outweighs certain cost issues for their overall marketing strategy. Definitely a nice motor, although I wish they offered a flat 6.
They do, or at least they did at one point with the legacy and others

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AutoGuide.Com Free App
 

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Car and Driver magazine had an article a while back about the optimum angle between the cylinder banks for any given engine to provide the best internal balance.

720*/ (number of cylinders) = Optimum angle.
So for a V8, 720*/8= 90*
V6 720*/6= 120*
4 720*/4=180*

Therefore, the most balanced engine configuration for a 4 cylinder is the flat four, like Subaru does. If choosing some other angle because of other valid concerns, balancing weights will need to be used.

At least that's how I remember it.
 

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its comes down to packaging... v-4 have fadded in cars because you don't need to do it in a car of that spec... chunky motorcycle engines need to be narrow... or inline 4 need to be small bore and or modern. and... where do you want the weight on the bike? so its mostly down to packaging and engineering decisions. (a vee engine will move the weight further back in the chassis on a bike, where an inline will put all the top end weight up front high.. where you don't want weight in the front...) no need for them in cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Is that a stock engine? It looks like fun.
-Rob
 

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Ford made a V4. It's most widely know use was in the Saab Sonnett.

Besides the added manufacturing costs for the engine you needed additional accessories - larger intake manifold, 2 exhaust manifolds, etc.



With the Saab there were two exhaust systems, one for each bank of cylinders. They dumped out onto the each side so you would only hear 2 cylinders on a side. They sounded "strange", like running your lawn mower.

Ford Germany designed the engine and used it in many cars - From Wiki:
The Taunus V4 was a V4 piston engine with one balance shaft, introduced by Ford Motor Company in Germany in 1962. The German V4 was built in the Cologne plant and powered the Ford Taunus and German versions of the Granada, Capri and Transit.

In common with other V4 and V6 engines, but unlike longer V engines with more cylinders, the connecting rods do not share a crankpin on the crankshaft.

The V4 was later expanded into the Ford Cologne V6 engine that was used in the Ford Capri, Ford Taunus, Ford Cortina, Ford Consul, Ford Granada, Ford Sierra, Ford Scorpio, Ford Ranger, Ford Explorer and many other cars. The V4 engine was (and still is) also used in industrial applications: pumps, electrical generators, and in agricultural machinery. In automobiles, the Taunus V4 was replaced by the Ford OHC/Pinto engine.

Cheers,
Kiyoshi
Pretty sure the Cologne German Ford V4 was originally designed as a Fork lift engine to run on propane.

Most of the Ford vehicles both the Cologne (german) and Essex(british) V4s were mounted in made no use of the short packaging the Engine allowed, the exception being the Transit Van.

The Zephyr had almost 2 feet of wasted space between the radiator and the front of the engine that Ford decided to mount the spare tyre in.



I must admit I ever thought anyone would bring up the subject of the Ford V4 on any Lotus forum,let alone an American one, I can still remember the distinct noise the one in the Transit delivery van made when I was thrashing the **** out of it! :lol:
 

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I really don't think the most widely known use was in the Sonett! Lots of German and UK-built Ford cars and vans used the V-4, as well as the Saab 95 and 96.
Hoprrid engine, but it fitted pretty well in the space vacated by the "gross-polluting" 2-stroke.
 
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