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Discussion Starter #1
Just curious because I know nothing about what it would take to do it. The Honda engines that everyone seems to want to use makes 200 - 220hp out of the box. The EVO VIII makes 276 and I saw a turbo kit from Force Fed for $4000 that puts it up to 500hp! I've seen the European tuner doing the Audi 1.8T engine, but the EVO engine gives you more bang to start with and they're both inline fours.

Just looking for feedback as to why it could or couldn't work.

Thanks
 

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I asked the same question.
There are a couple of reasons: the 4G63 engine is apparently too big (thought I've not checked personally) and heavy for the elise (it's an iron block engine). Just as important, there's apparently no available transmission to make it fit, which is a bit of an issue. I must add that I've not veified any of this so if someone comes along with a G63 engined elise, I'd still like to have a go in it!

By the way, Bernard's Audi conversion has something like a 1/4 inch chearance front and back, there's no extra space at all...

Apparently Bernard is willing to try out hotter turbos and things to see how much of a monster can be built, he's just looking for a customer that understands the costs and risks (and the fact that the car would be virtually undrivable). Up to 450bhp is possible with the 1.8T audi engine according to some of the UK tuners (Jabbasport, who provide the turbo for bernards 300bhp conversion).

Craigy
 

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I'm sure it could work giving enough dollars, but I'd be hesitant to do an engine swap for many years because:

1. Warranty or loss of;
2. Reliability. 300hp won't mean much if it gets me only 20,000 mile until a rebuild.
3. Applicabillity. What would have to be modified to get on of those engines in my Elise;
4. Dynamics. How would it effect the Elise's handling and braking with difference CGs and power delivery.
5. Resale Value: I don't think someone's going to want to pay $X amount for a heaviliy modified used Elise.

After the warranty period, I may opt for a supercharger or turbo -but that's sitll a big if. And, I'd need to see others getting long terms miles with that set up.
 

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Well you could also look into the iron block 2 liter Toyota MR2 Turbo lump and gearbox. You can get similar to EVO output out of it and it's *strong*. Lotsa effort though. I'd want a naturally aspirated engine were I to do a swap. Something in the 2-2.5 liter range maybe.

Stan
 

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the 4g63 is basically bulletproof....even in stock form putting out 276 hp, ull never blow it...
the question comes down to how much fabricating u wanna do to make it work...i dont want to cut anything on my chassis for anything....then the issue of getting a trans that converts without further cutting....
not a big deal to swap motors...u can always swap the original back in...the big deal is how much fabricating u wanna do to make it work....
from the sounds of it, making the evo engine work is too much fabricating....
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'm looking beyond the warranty and resale issue (not even considering it).

As for the trans. Why couldn't you use the entire engine and trans from the 4G63? It is essentially a FWD car with an output shaft for the AWD. Couldn't that be disconnected?
 

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Even jamming the engine up against the bulkhead, would there be space for the transmission to fit?

Craigy
 

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...bacause its cheaper to buy a Noble?
 

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fitfan said:
...bacause its cheaper to buy a Noble?
:clap: :clap: :clap:
 

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Seems like a turbocharged Hayabusa engine would work better. At 1.3 liters size is not an issue. It makes 200hp completely stock, so 300 hp with low to mid boost is no problem (500 plus hp is common) Anyway the engine weighs about 150 lbs less than the 1.8 Toyota.
 

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My guess is that a Hayabusa engine is not the right choice, at least for me, because:

Elise, light as it is, is still 4 X heavier than a 'busa. It might produce adequate low end torque to move the car from a standing start, but though the 2ZZ is no torque monster, I like the flexibility and energy it gives at part throttle. I personally would not choose a motor with a very narrow powerband.

For a car like an original Mini, which is 600 lbs. lighter than an Elise, the Hayabusa motor may work well, but since turbocharging doesn't do anything for off-idle acceleration, I'm not sure I would prefer that to just doing something with the 2ZZ.

If one doesn't care about practicality (and that would certainly be the case if one installs a Hayabusa motor) just knock out the luggage compartment bulkhead, and there is all the space you need for turbo gear, water injection, liquid intercoolers and piping, etc.



DLY
 

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im very familiar with the hayabusa....i had one. big piston kit...
i agree, for as great as the busa engine is, its a different animal putting it in a car..its not designed for a car.
the busa puts about 170-175 to the back wheel stock, about 220-230 with work...red line, if i remember correct is 11.5 or 12k.
in the bike, the engine is a torque monster, in a car, im not so sure....what trans would u use? also driveline loss is probably a bit more in a car than a bike...
i think its silly using a motorcycle engine in a car...suzuki doesent even use it in a car and i dont think u want a streetcar with a 12k redline...
just a bad idea...if u wanna do a swap fine...find a CAR engine.
 

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evomind said:
im very familiar with the hayabusa....i had one. big piston kit...
i agree, for as great as the busa engine is, its a different animal putting it in a car..its not designed for a car.
the busa puts about 170-175 to the back wheel stock, about 220-230 with work...red line, if i remember correct is 11.5 or 12k.
in the bike, the engine is a torque monster, in a car, im not so sure....what trans would u use? also driveline loss is probably a bit more in a car than a bike...
i think its silly using a motorcycle engine in a car...suzuki doesent even use it in a car and i dont think u want a streetcar with a 12k redline...
just a bad idea...if u wanna do a swap fine...find a CAR engine.
It may be a bit silly to put a bike engine in a car, however someone has already put the hayabusa engine in a Liz. Check out the picture below.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Did everyone forget about the Suzuki GSX-R/4 Concept Car in 2001?

http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2001-Suzuki-GSX-R4-Concept.htm

http://www.supercars.net/cars/[email protected][email protected]$GSX-R+4%20Conceptx.html

I know this is just a concept car, but Suzuki put a stock Hayabusa engine in a car that weighs 1411lbs. 101ft lbs of torque @7000rpms isn't exactly going to be usable from idle for sure, but I think the turbo would definitely help.

If the weight can be reduced on the Elise to around 1500lbs or less, I think a turbo-charged Hayabusa engine would definitely have enough torque to pull the car around.

F1 cars are by no means torque monsters.
 

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Craigy said:


By the way, Bernard's Audi conversion has something like a 1/4 inch chearance front and back, there's no extra space at all...

Craigy
Ehm, slight exaggaration me thinks. I've got at least 2 inches at the front and over a foot at the rear.
 

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i never said putting a busa engine in the elise "couldnt be done..."
i said it was a bad idea...
no need to show me the pic...
:)
 

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kenp said:
Ehm, slight exaggaration me thinks. I've got at least 2 inches at the front and over a foot at the rear.
Really? I understand you've got one of Bernard's monsters Ken, and I read before that you had been interested in an Esthi. Kudos on those.

My post on the lack of space was to do with the transmission and was based on bernard posting this on seloc

posted on 6-10-2004 at 09:14

quote:
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Originally posted by CAIC
Bernard,
there must be a sequential box out there which it used by the DTM and other touringcars with VAG engines?

As you understand I'm not sourcing info for a road car.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There may be, but to be honest I haven't looked. It must not be any bigger than the VAG 02M box though, only 5 mm clearance as it is !!

Bernard
This thread can be found here.

http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=33277&page=2

I didn't mean the converion took up the whole of the rear of the car.. sorry for any confusion.

Craigy
 

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Yes I actually test drove the 420 bhp Esthi and had a deposit on one for nearly a year.
I have got a Scouse conversion in my S1 Exige. As you know the Exige has a boot, little bigger than a coffee jar. Bernard removed the boot area primarily because a very hot exhaust was dangerously close to the boot area. As a result there is an area of about 16 inches behind the engine block. I intend to change the current exhaust arrangement to a sports Cat and two small exhaust boxes instead of the current single large one.
 

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kenp said:
I intend to change the current exhaust arrangement to a sports Cat and two small exhaust boxes instead of the current single large one.
That's a pretty unusual arrangement - I've not heard of anyone else doing that on an elise. It'll be interesting to see how you get on.

By the way, if you sometimes see a grey S1 elise in your road with early S1 wheels that are black, it's cause a mate of mine's mum lives in the same road as you in Weymouth.

Small world.

Craigy
 

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Don't think that's me. I live about 7 miles outside Weymouth (Osmington) and not in a road., but I have got a yellow S1 Elise with silver wheels as well.
 
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