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Discussion Starter #1
Looking to get some insight as I'm wanting to go the route of a supercharger and appreciate all the different threads about turbo vs supercharged or details about what others went with and why. However, I realize most of these threads are only a snapshot in time of guys looking to add, or having just added one of the two. It's kinda like asking the guy on his honeymoon how married life is. Same guy might respond differently in 5 years.
After pulling the trigger and spending the money it's not like your going to go tare it back out and sell it for 50% -70% less on the "parts for sale" portion of this form over what you paid. Yet they come up for sale here from time to time. A couple full turbocharged set up's in the $3k range. Noticed a rev 400 and a katana as well. So there is a range that come up every once in awhile not just one type or brand.
So... Why?
I would really like to here from someone who took there super or turbocharged set up off. I'm looking to hear from the divorcee here. Ha! Ya took the plunge, tied the knot, and now your taking it off.

I get that there might be a few out there that took it off for smog related issues. However if there is someone out there that removed theirs for any other reason, I would like to know about it.

Was it not all it was cracked up to be? Did you loose the excitement of the second cam kicking in? Reliability issues? Or were you looking at a different set up and are just upgrading to a higher performance level? Did your wife flip with the additional power that resulted in a near death experience and now refuses to get in it leaving you to cruse in a tiny convertible with one of your buddies unless you take it back to stock?

I would also like to hear from you if you paid the price and added a supercharger or turbocharger and wished you didn't. Was it a mistake? Why? Would you have wanted to get a different set up or is it buyers remorse with you just wanting to have your money back and return it to stock? What about it was a disappointment? I'm sure it isn't all flowers and sunny days. Well... unless it is.
 

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Saffron Yellow is Lighter
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My biggest and only regret with installing my REV400 is that I did not do it sooner.... Sooner meaning in 2005, because it was not yet available.
 
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I've got a BWR on mine, which is a baby compared to the REV 400, but it still transformed the car. I think you'll hear that a lot. I've never regretted it for a minute, and I'd put a REV 400 on if I had the cash.
 

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I never removed mine and I can;t see any reason to do that other then to go rev300/400. I have the K2 and have driven Elise's without. I'd rather just drive my mr2 then drive with out my SC?

some reason for why I would not part.

1) Coming out of a turn with a SC vs NA, big...
2) pickup in 6th on the highway, very noticeable with SC.
3) The sound, if you are in to that.
4) Not letting mustangs show you up.
5) Having an exotic needs more then looks IMO. A SC does that.
 
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Since not a lot of answers from your target audience, I feel more free to chime in with an opinion.

Custom turbo setups are just that - bespoke and unproven. This ends up meaning they are far more likely to need an eye kept on them for component failure and I see that as a difficult task when the people who desired/designed the system are removed from the picture. They have the best chance of either not working out or breaking too much.

3rd party superchargers have this same issue, but as time goes by and the installation base grows, so can confidence. I put the REV series in this bucket - its niche but not bespoke. Still requires more TLC but the risk is not nearly as high. I'd venture to guess the systems that come up for sale are typically based on factors like

- returning to stock to maximize profit
- installation failure accountable to the installer chosen
- tried to piece together a kit but ended up selling the car before completing it out
- unreasonable expectation of NA reliability with increased power
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I appreciate the insight.

I'm still fishing for the guys who remove there super and turbocharged kits and put them up for sale.

That said, what kind of miles have you logged on since after installation of super charger (or turbocharger if someone with one gets in on the conversation)?

I really enjoy the second cam in these and unless I'm cought unaware of someone wanting to give me a go, than by knowing where my Rpms are and by keeping in the proximity of the second cam, than I don't have an issue with soccer moms in there mini vans or mustangs. Sure if your not in the second cam range it kinda sucks, but I have a murcielago that I put to good use when I have the itch and feel like frying the souped up Subaru's or burners. However as a result I am always having to get something fixed on it. So I'm not trying to replace that kind of experience. These little cars are a completely different kind of experience and I'm wanting to improve that not change it entirely.

So with that in mind I've been looking at the bwr rev400 and have moved my oil cooler, installed the rear clam tilt kit and moved my battery to accommodate. I haven't pulled the trigger as even though they say there rev400 kit comes ready prepped for a stock elise, it makes me wonder if adding (just that kit) would keep it balanced. Probably a better word for it, but when I say "balanced" I'm meaning that by knowing what gear I'm in and the sound of the motor I know how to get it in the second cam power almost instantaneously this car has a "complete feel" to it. Even though it's kinda weak sauce on the lower rpms, it's balanced and really a fun car because it is. I like the thought of a supercharger as there isn't turbo lag, but never had a supercharger on anything, so I don't know if its benefits are eventually felt along all rpm and speeds and predictable through sound. Sure I see the room for improvement, so I've looked seriously into a k20 Honda swap, but I like the fun of the boost from the second cam. It's part of what makes this car uniquely awesome. So if there is a supercharger that can take a sock motor and make it better, than cool, but is it balanced and readable in its sound and feel?

Thanks for the feedback as I really value the perspective.
 

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I have a REV 300 kit on mine (bought the car, used, with it already installed), but I've also driven a couple of non-supercharged Elise's.

Yes, the supercharger adds noticeably more power (duh!) but it also produces a lot more LINEAR power.

You've got way more low-end grunt (and, in the Elise, "low end" means "under 5K RPM).

The switch to the second cam is there, and you notice it but, it's not nearly the kick-in-the-pants with a REV 300 than it is with a stock NA motor.

I feel like I *hear* the cam switchover (which happens at a lower RPM in the REV kits, compared to the stock switchover point) more than I *feel* it.

The REV 300 just pulls and pulls, very even power delivery.

You mention the REV 400 - people who know a lot more than I do about that can chime in but, it's my understanding that the REV 400 kit has enough power to start breaking stock parts (transmission, clutch, engine internals, etc.) if you really whomp on it regularly.
 

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I purchased my elise stock 2006 NA. I switched to Katana kit with around 260 hp. Wow, very cool, more power everywhere, but lost the second cam kick because of the prog into the ECU. The kick is not welcome on track, but I agree, it is something cool with it.

After I switched to REV300 and after to REV400. Because of my use on track and reving high all a time, I started to have big problems with the engine, prep for the purpose, but still, for me, overpassing 260 hp with the 2ZZ on track is not welcome with my driver attitude.

I switched to a K20 Honda. I decided to go with a Turbo setup. The turbo is cool but expensive and complex to build. More torque for the same HP for a better power band. It is possible to minimise the lag. Now the car have close to 400 whp. Why a turbo if the cost and complexity is higher? Torque... yes, but in my case, another criteria was existing. I drive mostly on noise restrictive race track, and it is easier to make a low noise car with a Turbo... My car is fast, complex, but meet the noise requirement easily. I still use the car on street, and the noise level on normal driving on town is lower than my stock Focus RS. And the engine react as a big block with big torq
 

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I don't think you are going to find many that removed a SC or turbo, if they went through this install they likely kept it unless returning to stock for a sale.

From your last post it is hard to tell exactly what you're looking for this car to do. If you want to "play" with other cars on public roads this is not the right car, it's hard to get that much power without breaking things into this little of an engine compartment. If you love the cam change over point that will go away with a SC, I just have the stock SC and the change over is hardly noticeable in feel. If you've never had a SC in a car I'd recommend going with the Rev 300 or 400 or that Rev X BOE has as well. The SC really changes this car for the better. I'm sure someone around with one would give you a ride to show you the difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Elise/Europa. When you say after you switched to the Katana kit with around 260 hp and that it had,"more power everywhere, but lost the second cam kick because of the prog into the ECU. The kick is not welcome on track, but I agree, it is something cool with it."

The loss of the second cam with the programming, is that just the way it is when you adding a supercharger or was that a choice you made as per your track rules/ safty reasons? Another guy mentioned that the cam change over wasn't as noticeable with the SC he had. Is that because of a choice in programming options? I really enjoy the second cam kick in. That's the lotus design on the top end of the Toyota motor. That's part of what I like about this car. But below the 5k rpm it is... well kinda a let down. Kinda like when I was looking at buying a DeLorean... What a let down it was to find out there is no way that thing could do a burn out. Back to the future was full of it. That thing couldn't spin its tires on ice. But it was at that high end consignment dealer that I seen the elise for the first time. I ended up going home researching what that little thing was and came back and bought it.

Also, elise/Europa with your experience with different SC, would my motor be safe with the rev400 set up with the stock pulley and tuning of ecu that comes with kit? I'm not a track guy so it's not push push all the time.

Also with the k20 swap. If you weren't tracking it would it have enough with out the turbo to make it awsome around town or would you prefer one of the SC setups? As someone else commented one of the issues with turbo setups is ya have to know it's setup in and out and always monitor/ tweek it. That's why I hesitate to go k20 swap as I know I would turbo it and get those inherited issues. As far as noise... I don't live in a city I have no smog restrictions, so I have straight pipes and no cats on my murcielago allowing it to kick out fire balls when I down shift and no one cares if it's loud. It's not like I drive down the road at one in the morning in it. So noise isn't an issue past the issue of having to drive with the roar behind me.

Thanks again for input
 

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Returning a car back to stock to sell it seems like by far and away the most common reason to me - a stock car will sell faster, and you can sell the SC stuff on the side to recoup more costs than selling it all at once. In fact I'm getting a built engine/sc/trans from a friend for that exact same reason - he's selling the car and wanted to return everything to stock for ease of sale.
 

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Agreed most kits for sale are from people returning it to stock. A bone stock lotus + parts sells for more than an upgraded one.

I bought my sc two years ago. After one year of owning the car. I have a VF stage 2 kit and I would not revert it back. Everything else on my car was stock, and it was the first sports car I've ever owned or really actually driven. A friend recommended autocross and I loved it. I wanted to be faster! The supercharger didnt help my times, but it sounded better and made me feel faster.

I used to love my backroad commute to work, I'd stay on the second cam for long stretches doing 60ish in winding 45s and just love it. The high revs the feeling of being on the edge bumping just below and back into the cam to get the surge of torque.

Now with the sc I actually enjoy that commute less. With the sc staying on the second cam is dangerous speed for the street and the cam torque feeling is reduced. The overall acceleration throughout the range is much greater but the feel of a boost is lost

I wish I had delayed getting the supercharger until I was a better driver. I've now done a few track days, hpde, and I do alright because I'm in a sweet ass car. If i were in a lesser machine i would suck. But my car is so much better than me I would have learned much more technique if I didn't have the supercharger crutch,

If you want to hear the supercharger with a stock exhaust I have a video of a track session with a go pro and no editing so I recommend jumping through it as it gets boring but it's your time to waste. https://youtu.be/_8zpPjFg2d0
I love the sc whine!

On the plus side I no long lose a red light dash to high school kids with a broken muffler on their golf. And brz/frs guys dream of the acceleration I have.

In short honeymoon is over but she's still putting out and I'm not getting divorced!
 

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In short honeymoon is over but she's still putting out and I'm not getting divorced!
What's the difference between a five year wife and a five year job?

The job still sucks.

San
 

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Have had BOE 300 for 2 yr and are among those who wished I'd done it earlier.

Car drives as if it's a factory s/u.

BTW, there is a large (~20 hp) valley on n.a cars, apparently to make the cam changeover more dramatic.

Bad idea:

Beside the loss of hp, car is not smooth and ppl worry about that "surge" arriving in middle of a turn.

In the wrong gear, feels like lots of turbo lag.

To mostly eliminate that valley, get the BOE 200. Much nicer to drive.
 

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This is an interesting thread. BTW, I do have a supercharger kit in the FS section currently, if anyone is interested ;)

I'm in the minority here but I'm not selling my kit for any of the reasons listed above. I am a turbo/power junkie and that is the direction I am going. I originally bought my car with the VF2 kit already on it thinking based on research prior to purchasing that supercharging was the way to go. I am glad that I didn't buy an NA car because I probably would have gone the supercharger route and paid for a new kit. Thankfully, I got to see what the supercharger was like at the discounted rate since it was already on the car.

I 100% understand why people love superchargers for these cars and I can't imagine what the power would be like NA.

Maybe my tune will change after a few years of turbo life but I've been there before and know what I'm getting myself into.
 

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Many questions here. The cam kick is caused by waiting too much rpm before to switch. When the tune is done, the tuner do the dyno run on small cam, and another dyno run on big cam. At the rpm where both dyno give the same power, this m is set to switch cam in order to obtain the best power curve. If the switch rpm is raised higher, the torque will be reduced on small cam, and the big came transition will create an artificial kick.

If you are looking for a REV300 or REV400, the kick can be maybe too much agressive and maybe not welcome.

Based on my limited experience, it is better to use a REV300 than a VF275. The rev is straight design without hoses. I saw few vf275 having trouble. The rev kit are good stuff and well done. Having around 350 hp with the 2ZZ on street with limited abuse is probably ok.

Going to a k20 swap needs quite motivation. The k20 engine is a lot better engine than the 2ZZ, but expensive to do and not really required for street use where a rev kit will give more power for less money. I did a k20 turbo since I was switching from a REV400, the goal was to obtain reliability with more power at the same time. Of course a NA tuned Stock k20 with around 260 hp is probably cool, but not as hardcore than a rev kit.

In stock form with abuse, I think the compromise of the kit from inokenitic (maybe not correctly written...) is the maximum safe power level.
 

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This is an interesting thread. BTW, I do have a supercharger kit in the FS section currently, if anyone is interested ;)

I'm in the minority here but I'm not selling my kit for any of the reasons listed above. I am a turbo/power junkie and that is the direction I am going. I originally bought my car with the VF2 kit already on it thinking based on research prior to purchasing that supercharging was the way to go. I am glad that I didn't buy an NA car because I probably would have gone the supercharger route and paid for a new kit. Thankfully, I got to see what the supercharger was like at the discounted rate since it was already on the car.

I 100% understand why people love superchargers for these cars and I can't imagine what the power would be like NA.

Maybe my tune will change after a few years of turbo life but I've been there before and know what I'm getting myself into.
What, 400 RELIABLE hp isn't enough?

If you are looking for a REV300 or REV400, the kick can be maybe too much agressive and maybe not welcome.
Not true on my REV300. Barely feel a "kick".
 

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What, 400 RELIABLE hp isn't enough?



Not true on my REV300. Barely feel a "kick".
Based on my personal experience and my driver attitude on track, the 2ZZ is not reliable at the 400 HP whatever you are doing on the engine. I know people having 400 hp but shifting at 7000-7500 at the track... this is not a 400 hp... but 400 hp on a elise is more than enough to have big big fun.

For the kick and std écu setting for the REV300, you know more than me for sure. I all a time used a custom program local made with racing ÉCU. Is the kick is as big as the original, or barely with mainly a noise change?

For the real question, I saw a lot of people selling the car as is with the mods. It sound that selling a modified lotus is not a reducing but price factor, and more with a well done rev kit, which is a great kit. Of course, alll forcefed turbo kit was done too early with the ÉCU EFI having at that time few major issues. The VF kit I saw had few issues also. But again, I still think that 260 hp on stock engine on abusing situation full rev is close the limit for the 2ZZ. Few years ago, I stopped to do race for 2 years. My 2ZZ with 400 hp was running great for that two years, and last less than one hour at the track when I started to return to the track. My plan that day was already changing the engine for the k20. The k20 at 400 whp is really reliable, I dismounted the engine this winter after two years of track for inspection. The interior was like a new engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
A lot of really valuable insight here. Thanks a lot to those who have shared some of there experiences with different kits. Even got a turbo guy to join in (I knew they weren't a myth). Really interesting insight scottH83, that even being a straight up turbo guy you went for a SC set up and are back to your turbo roots.

Sorry about all the questions elise/europa, but with the different kits and setups you have owned... there is a lot of value in that perspective for me. So I'll only trouble you with one more question. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand from your answer (as well through outhers input). My stock elise has the joy of the second cam as a result of it being starved for rpm, so when it kicks in and it gets that rpm, than the effect is the fun little boost. In short lotus made a desision in there programing to rob us of our possible top end exceleration of the first cam to give us the serge in the change over? Which is reasonable enough thing to do to distract us from how gutless it is in the low rpms. I believe your also saying that with a SC installed, than they program it to give the car the best over all exceleration hence no dramatic second cam change over? However, if that is correct, than it is possible for the programming to mimic screwing me out of my top end in the first cam, to give me my fun little lotus engineering replicated serge? I could see how that serge doesn't make sense to have in the track but for me... If that type of programming is possible, than I'm all in on a SC.


However if it isn't possible, it's great to get the perspective of knowing that I'm going to loose most of the fun of the second cam in adding a SC.
 

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When you are buying a kit, I don’t know if you can ask for the cam switch at higher rpm, but I suppose that it is a special request.

BUT, with a REV300 and worst the REV400 (worst on the positive way), the car is blasting a lot without that kick. In other word, I don’t think that you need the cam switch to have the fun you are looking for. The car will start to be a beast at low rpm anyway, and like other guy said, the only regret from the installation of the REV400 was waiting so long before to install it. With the rev kit, the car just become a super car.
 
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