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Will this car end up like the S2000 and 350z

3K views 30 replies 14 participants last post by  OneFastLotus 
#1 ·
Dont get me wrong, I want Lotus to do well in the US......however,


I really really hope that this car doesnt end up like the S2000 or 350z where I see one or two every 2 blocks. At the price point, and looks and performance I think this car could potentially turn into flavor of the month like the S2k and 350z.


The only thing I see keeping this from happening are A, number imported B, its not a comfortable cushy car even with its "american mods" its still not going to be what someone would call cushy C, Im hoping the resale value holds high so you dont see them selling the next year for 25 or 27K like you do the S2k and 350z


Any ideas on this?
 
#2 ·
I don't think that you'll ever see them "all over the place". They're only coming in in very small numbers, and the Elise is not nearly as practical as a 350Z or even an S2000. So IMO the car will be primarily for true enthusiasts willing to live with and even enjoy the car's real or perceived limitations. For these reasons it'll generally be a rare sighting, at all but a Lotus club gathering.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I've seen a couple of RX-8's but only at car-related events (in the parking areas) and near dealer showrooms (test drives), so not a true "natural" sighting ! I just saw my first Crossfire out on the streets, looked very nice. A metallic, charcoal (darker grey than gunmetal) color. Interesting-looking car, I'm really glad to see more cool, small coupes coming out rather than just boring trucks and SUV's !
 
#6 ·
Physically can't happen. You are talking about a company that can only push out a few thousand cars per year worldwide vs companies that could make 20-40k of one model car.

Porsche even has a production line dedicated to the boxster.

We probably have ~10k 350zs here already, 4k rx8s, 30-40k s2ks, and 50k boxsters.

vs 3k per year in terms of elises.

And all of these cars can easily be daily drivers. (I know, I drive my boxster every day)

Scot
 
#8 · (Edited)
I really don't think the Elise will be a dime a dozen car. EVEN if Lotus TRIPLED the first year's production, then there would only be 7,500-9,000 cars a year. Incidentally, I think Vipers are produced at around 10,000 per year?

As for Porsche, funny thing is, Porsche produces about 50,000 Boxsters a year. And even though they're pretty common in some areas (like L.A.), 50,000 units a year is relatively small compared to the number of Vette, Mustangs, etc. I guess Porsche sell 40,000 Boxsters a year in California! ;)

So, don't worry. At 3,000 to 4,000 units a year, there Elises won't be to common and will probably hold their value.

Maybe in five years, the fed S2 models will be more common (about 15-20K units), but by then a S3 (or newer model) will probably be out.

Lastly, buy the car for enjoyment and not for investment (unless you plan to sell it during the initial feeding frenzy ) :p
 
#9 ·
Yes, and I will be very interested to see how Lotus can crank out that many. IIRC, they produced around 2000 units last year, for the UK, Euro and Asian markets combined. I know that Lotus currently builds the VX-220 for Vauxhall on a parallel assembly line next to the Elise's. If they discontinued that line and converted it to the new Elise, this could be done, but otherwise, it would seem like a fairly massive increase in production to meet the goal of 2500 units for the U.S. and then whatever the demand is for the rest of the world. I just hope that quality does not suffer (though I don't think that it will, all indications are that Lotus understands the importance of making sure the U.S. Elise is a top-quality product right out of the starting gates).
 
#10 ·
One more thing, speaking of common - in my area (orange county, so. cal.), I'll see one Mustang after another, sometimes nose to tail, at a stop light. Man, if I had one I would hate that (I guess explaining why I don't own one :rolleyes: )

And, don't even get me started on SUV's (as far as the eye can see).
 
#11 ·
The VX is going out of production this year. From what I've heard Lotus will have a separate line for the Fed Elise. My understanding is that in the last year or so sales have soften for the Elise, so production most likely wasn't at max. With all that said, most likely they wouldn't be doing more then 2500/yr of the US Elise's.
 
#13 ·
Im not buying the car for an investment. Ive never purchased a car as an investment, but I do lean toward cars that arent a dime a dozen. I know I sound goofy saying that when I own miatas but the three I have are very different than most, even the turbo'd ones.

I dont see many vipers here....the ones that are here are all members of my local message board so often I'll see 5 or 6 vipers every Friday so I guess it seems like more.

Boxters, I swear I see zillions of them. Same with S200's and 350z's. I have nothing against these cars, Im just saying I see a lot of them.
 
#14 ·
It should also be noted that your typical american buyer will not buy a car unless they can get an automatic transmission (read: lazy)... that alone is enough to chase a large number of people away from the Elise, not to mention the lack of creature comforts, traction control, and all that other garbage.
 
#16 ·
I drove my X1/9 everyday for 6 years...and in that time I only twice saw another X1/9 when I was in my car. There were roughly 100K X1/9's imported to the US over a 12 year period. This was a car hailed the "Baby Ferrari," a mini sports car w/ all wheel discs, mid-engine, bertone state-of-the-art styling (cars copied it for years), and well priced. Of course, americans preferred the Spider convertible with all the luxeries.

To this day...anyone who has owned an X1/9 has said that it was their favorite, best-handling, little car. It's not too practical though, and people got lazy with upkeep over time. However, those people who still own them will tell you it's the best car...there is still a loyal following (including myself...I'm in the middle of a complete restore as we speak).

The point of all this is...the elise (like the X1/9) is not a car for everyone...which is great for us. We will be the loyal fans of this incredible car, and those lame people who buy them for alternative reasons will sell quickly, and we will have more to collect for ourselves :)
 
#17 ·
Re: Vipers. I read that 14,000 had been produced through the end of 2002. Current production @ 2000 per year. You see them around LA, but they aren't exactly common.

Boxsters are quite common, while S2000s seem less so. Although the Honda is a little cheaper, I suspect that a lot of folks are willing to fork out a little more for the Porsche name.

So, I would say that the Elise will be rare enough to make us feel special and certainly will turn heads.
 
#18 ·
Have you driven one yet? No way this will become as popular as a Boxster or the like. I'm not sure half the people could get it in and out once let alone a couple of times a day.
 
#19 ·
I personally don't find entry and egress a big deal on the S2 and later cars (sills lowered about 1.5" from the S1s).

Just one of those things you have to get used to. Although an obese person would probably encounter problems getting into the driver's seat.

One easy thing to make it a bit easier is to mount a quick release for the steering wheel, which you can buy from race suppliers. The exige and sport 190 were fitted with these.

Chris
 
#20 ·
Also, I can't see the AVERAGE Boxster buyer would even giving second look to the Elise, it's a totally different kind of car. Probably for the same reason I wouldn't even give the Boxster (or S2000 or..........) a second look compared to an Elise.
Chris
 
#21 ·
Actually, I think the Elise has a lot of Boxster owners attention: mid engine, two seater, open aired top.

The way I see it is the Boxster camp is divided into two fold: a) a group that seeks the performance oriented group that looks pass horsepower for balance of a mid-engine design; b) the groups that wants the comfort, luxury, and prestige of a Porsche.

The Elise will attact the a group and while the b group (that like the Elise) may worry that Elise will be too hard, spartan for every day use...but will be attracted my the limited numbers.
 
#22 ·
I just don't see this car as competition against Boxsters, and I never have. If the Boxster was more like the original 550 Spyder that it was modeled after, than yes, but not the actual, production model. I have driven the Boxster, and it was very nice, but it felt kind of big, solid and heavy, completely different from an Elise. For the "average" American driver looking for what is called a "sports car" here, the Boxster would be perfectly serviceable as a daily driver, but for the same driver, the Elise will be too spartan and unforgiving, in general.

Same goes for S2000's, 350Zs, etc.
 
#24 ·
Come on people, remember Chuck Palahniuk's neo-macho ethos in Fight Club, that business about how you are not your khakis? Well, you are not your lightweight, no-compromises sports car. A person shouldn't be so concerned about material exclusivity, it's not really something positive to strive for in life.

Personally, I couldn't be happier if Lotus sold hundreds of thousands of Elises, or hundreds of thousands of them every year. Think of what the aftermarket would be like after 5 or so years, che bella!!!!
 
#25 ·
Have you seen the prices of a boxster? Or any other porsche at this point?

YES EXACTLY! WE WANT THE ELISE.

I want a car that is small light and fast. That is exactly what the elise promises.

My boxster S is nice, but I wanted a club sport version that was light, unfortunately that could have hurt carerra sales. Porsche is supposedly finally going to release a car like this in the next 2 years, but most likely at a signifigant cost. If you look at the GT2, it is a turbo light with less stuff in it and just rwd, yet it costs 80k more than a standard turbo. The club sport boxster will robably cost 70k IMO and provide no real performance increase over the 40k dollar elise.

My guess is the already lagging porsche sales will drop by about 600-700 people per year switching to the elise.

Scot

(although my biggest problem switching will be the engine, the opposed 6 is SO nice no matter what rpm you are running at, just like a rotary.)
 
#26 ·
demi said:
Come on people, remember Chuck Palahniuk's neo-macho ethos in Fight Club, that business about how you are not your khakis? Well, you are not your lightweight, no-compromises sports car. A person shouldn't be so concerned about material exclusivity, it's not really something positive to strive for in life.

Personally, I couldn't be happier if Lotus sold hundreds of thousands of Elises, or hundreds of thousands of them every year. Think of what the aftermarket would be like after 5 or so years, che bella!!!!
I think you've COMPLETELY misunderstood me. I am not the sum of my cars but I do value having "different" items. I dont fancy being a lemming, that was my only point. Clearly if I was into appearances I wouldnt have miatas or RX7's as they're quite popular.

Its fun to have a "different" car. Ive met all sorts of interesting people thru my oddball cars. From V8 miatas to DeLoreans to nutball turbocharged miatas. If everyone had one it wouldnt be quite as much fun IMHO.

As I stated, I hope Lotus does quite well and I have selfish motives for that too....not just that I like the car but I have some projects going too. wink wink.

I just like being a little different too and I dont see anything wrong with that. Otherwise I'd drive a Ford Taurus and live in modular housing.
 
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