I went to my local Lotus dealership in the Dallas area last week, Earth Motor Cars, and was told by the lead sales rep that all of their Emira's going forward will have a 12k mark-up over MSRP. Anyone know if other dealerships are doing something similar? I did notice that on Gator's webpage (Indianapolis) they specifically noted that their vehicles will NOT be marked up over MSRP. Just curious since I definitely won't be buying from the Dallas stealership.
Emira mark-up from dealership?
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amaharaj76
61 - 80 of 224 Posts
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Dealers like to lower expectations by providing a much longer timeline as a buffer, but at the same time, they don’t want to discourage potential sellers. Behind every deposit is a potential sale to them, and with more sales come more orders, leading to more incentives by Lotus for future allocations.
Several people in the Emira group are reporting deliveries as early as a few months after putting in orders in October of last year and already receiving the car, whereas some are experiencing delays of 12 months or more.
I remember @Julian73 mentioned putting a deposit as early as mid-2021 and still not receiving squat, while others were getting VINs not too long (few mo) after just putting down a deposit.
Bought my 90K 2011S in 5/14 for 60K..NEW
Somewhat related but I am in the same boat purchasing a 2024 Lexus GX550. They do not allow you to order and after being on 3 waiting lists for a while, an allocation came available that is arriving in 6-8 weeks. When I went to the dealer they had a $15k "markup" via mandatory PPF, window tint and whatever magical coating the offer on the paint. Another dealer that I'm waiting on has a $5k markup and I got the original dealer to do a $5k markup and I paid a deposit. Crappy situation but the extra $5k is worth it to me for convenience and getting it sooner than later
'17 Evora 400MT, Racing Green, KT 430, Carbon, 3rd cat
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2,075 Posts
Once bitten twice shy.
My local dealer wanted full list in 2017 for his 400 demo which seemed steep to me given the vehicle was his mule. I prefer to buy locally but was put off by their unwillingness to discount a demo vehicle when cars were being discounted elsewhere. A few months later I found a car with my preferred spec for 15k off list. I bought it. Six months following that my local dealer was trying to sell a 400 for $25k off list. Yeah, after the bloom was off the rose they offered a friend of mine a 400 for $79k, 25 thousand dollars below list price, 10k less than I paid for my car just a few months previously. I love my car so I don’t regret the buy but yeesh!
The local guys did get my service money but I had to stop using them because the quality of their work became unacceptable as they burned through techs. This is Lotus we’re taking about. People who are new to the marque will not have had experiences like mine, but anyone who has actually bought a new Lotus prior to the Emira will be well familiar with the ups and downs of the market and Lotus’ business style. They will probably love their cars but might wish to be wary of the challenges involved in ownership. This makes paying a premium for the privilege more difficult to swallow.
I’ve had fine experiences with several Lotus factory employees and believe that most Lotus employees really do love their brand and want customers to have a great experience. However the factory seems incapable of executing according to plan……or is the ongoing victim of terrible luck. Or both.
I enjoy Lotus cars and the original design philosophy and intent, but Lotus’ execution always seems to be just shy of the target. It’s very difficult to pay a premium for that the second time around.
My disappointment in Lotus’ introduction of the Emira was triggered when instead of celebrating Emira’s heritage and debt to the Evora design, they tried to distance Emira by claiming it was an all new vehicle. Instead of celebrating the perfection of the Eagle platform they pretended Emira was an all new package and threw the previous offerings under the bus. It’s been a troubled introduction and for all the Emira’s goodness and appeal, as an existing customer I won’t be participating in a feeding frenzy until I see a bit more resolve to correct the problems of the past. I don’t need or want them to lose money on me. I want them to thrive. But I also want to see them create a stable market with premium service and parts availability before I jump in a second time.
Lotus’ biggest issue isn’t the product and never has been. Patience may be a virtue but my experience has taught me it’s also a necessity when dealing with the marque.
My local dealer wanted full list in 2017 for his 400 demo which seemed steep to me given the vehicle was his mule. I prefer to buy locally but was put off by their unwillingness to discount a demo vehicle when cars were being discounted elsewhere. A few months later I found a car with my preferred spec for 15k off list. I bought it. Six months following that my local dealer was trying to sell a 400 for $25k off list. Yeah, after the bloom was off the rose they offered a friend of mine a 400 for $79k, 25 thousand dollars below list price, 10k less than I paid for my car just a few months previously. I love my car so I don’t regret the buy but yeesh!
The local guys did get my service money but I had to stop using them because the quality of their work became unacceptable as they burned through techs. This is Lotus we’re taking about. People who are new to the marque will not have had experiences like mine, but anyone who has actually bought a new Lotus prior to the Emira will be well familiar with the ups and downs of the market and Lotus’ business style. They will probably love their cars but might wish to be wary of the challenges involved in ownership. This makes paying a premium for the privilege more difficult to swallow.
I’ve had fine experiences with several Lotus factory employees and believe that most Lotus employees really do love their brand and want customers to have a great experience. However the factory seems incapable of executing according to plan……or is the ongoing victim of terrible luck. Or both.
I enjoy Lotus cars and the original design philosophy and intent, but Lotus’ execution always seems to be just shy of the target. It’s very difficult to pay a premium for that the second time around.
My disappointment in Lotus’ introduction of the Emira was triggered when instead of celebrating Emira’s heritage and debt to the Evora design, they tried to distance Emira by claiming it was an all new vehicle. Instead of celebrating the perfection of the Eagle platform they pretended Emira was an all new package and threw the previous offerings under the bus. It’s been a troubled introduction and for all the Emira’s goodness and appeal, as an existing customer I won’t be participating in a feeding frenzy until I see a bit more resolve to correct the problems of the past. I don’t need or want them to lose money on me. I want them to thrive. But I also want to see them create a stable market with premium service and parts availability before I jump in a second time.
Lotus’ biggest issue isn’t the product and never has been. Patience may be a virtue but my experience has taught me it’s also a necessity when dealing with the marque.
Spot on as usual!!! Eagle platform was a BIG upgrade from Elige IMHO. Out of the box, it was crisper in bone stock form than an Elise, which had significant understeer built into the setup. Never understood that corporate BS. Actually, it pissed me off. Lotus really f'd up by NOT going after a newer motor from the Toyota collection......was it the tranny motor interface issue? We'll never know.
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93 Posts
** After posting this, Lotus announced they are building my V6 FE Auto V1 this month and it will be 2024 model year. Not sure why the change. Could be that the fed's announced an increase in emission standards for 2025 which will mean stricter CARB out of CA.
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93 Posts
"I waited this long, I might as well get the Emira S than a base model that's been out for 2 years."
Not sure where you get your information. The Emira is just now being released in the USA, it's not 2 years old, and there are no "Base Editions" available for production orders as of yet. Lotus has not published anything about offering an Emira S model in the USA. if you have that data please post it. All they are focusing on for the USA market is completing all 1,200 of the V6 First Edition's which were all pre-sold production orders and getting them to the dealers so they can deliver them to their customers. Then they will be building the I4 2.0L Turbo AMG First Edition orders which last word were all to be 2025 Model year and expect to see the first ones arriving Q4 2024.
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618 Posts
Exactly the kind of response I’d expect from someone who works at a dealership lol. Not once did I mentioned that it’s been out for two years in the US, the Emira been out for two years WORLDWIDE and it’s usually around this time when they start to drop new variants. Just log off dude.
A dealership in Europe purchased the upper quarter panel badges for the Base and S variants of the vehicle that are to be shipped, I'll have to look around but I may be able to post it once I find it. Besides that, I think someone found in the vin decoder, designations for S and R variants to be released. At the moment, there's enough evidence to at least be confident that there are these variants in the works, but whether they'll come to the US and which engine either will use has yet to be confirmed.
'17 Evora 400MT, Racing Green, KT 430, Carbon, 3rd cat
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2,075 Posts
Even if there wasn’t a new trim being offered (and there will certainly be such) paying over MSRP for the experience is not a prudent thing to do. Especially when there’s absolutely no need to do so based on our easy access to all the available inventory.
I don’t need to get the cheapest new car deal ever but I would feel like a complete dork if I knew going in that I had paid the absolute maximum because I was too impatient to do a Google search. It’s a slow burn experience. In all the excitement of getting a new car, I could perhaps convince myself I was fine with the decision but that extra $15k will really sting when it’s time to trade out for the next thrill ride because I was so impatient and intemperate. My mother would not be proud of me!
We truly live in strange times when such sums have so little meaning or value to some consumers when they buy a disposable asset. To be honest, spending profligately is the least of the reasons why this moment in time is so weird. If we’re lucky to get through our self made messes of the moment, history will look back on this era and marvel that so many were so poorly informed on so many issues when the free flow of information was, finally, so ubiquitous and available to all. That’s of course another issue entirely and not the focus of these fora, so ‘nuff said on the matter.
I don’t need to get the cheapest new car deal ever but I would feel like a complete dork if I knew going in that I had paid the absolute maximum because I was too impatient to do a Google search. It’s a slow burn experience. In all the excitement of getting a new car, I could perhaps convince myself I was fine with the decision but that extra $15k will really sting when it’s time to trade out for the next thrill ride because I was so impatient and intemperate. My mother would not be proud of me!
We truly live in strange times when such sums have so little meaning or value to some consumers when they buy a disposable asset. To be honest, spending profligately is the least of the reasons why this moment in time is so weird. If we’re lucky to get through our self made messes of the moment, history will look back on this era and marvel that so many were so poorly informed on so many issues when the free flow of information was, finally, so ubiquitous and available to all. That’s of course another issue entirely and not the focus of these fora, so ‘nuff said on the matter.
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Well Dude! No sure why are you so antagonistic, the conversation was regarding US production cars available now, vs waiting for a model which does not yet exist. I have been with Lotus since '97 - So I've been dealing with them a long time. Other than the badges, and the vin decoders mention on this forum, I have not heard a word from Lotus about an S or R model coming here. If you have further evidence, it would be great to know. Unless Lotus changes course on their all-EV platform, the Emira is not going to be in production as long as the Elise/Exige, or even the Esprit's were. If they stay committed to go all EV in 2028 and the Emira global orders continue to exceed production, it is unlikely they will invest in additional models for the US market. So, my "speculation" is they will more than likely end production of the 3.5L V6 due to increased emission standards and focus on the AMG platform. In that case you might be correct in them offering "S" trim and "R" trim level options. Those will be DCT gearbox only, so for the buyer who wants a new V6 manual gearbox, they may miss their opportunity to order one and spec it new. There will be plenty of opportunity to purchase pre-owned ones for sure. If members want to pre-order a New Emira V6 manual, encourage them to do so now, so when Lotus opens up ordering for that spec customers will have a chance at getting a 2024 production model end of this year. If the V6 continues into 2025 they will be fine, and if Lotus does announce an upgraded model, they will already be in the que with their dealer to get one of those. Waiting many not be the best option.
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618 Posts
The subject concerns dealers like you adding market adjustments. My discussion revolves around the Emira being out for two years; not once did I mention the US timeline. If a US consumer were to take note that a new model across the pond is being released, wouldn't you instinctively wait for that one to arrive as well, rather than paying 10-15k over sticker? No one here is being antagonistic, and if you interpret it as such, it’s probably because you work for a dealer that promotes an ADM environment and then goes about defending why ADM is needed to support these family-owned dealers. Your paycheck is contingent on a sale, and news of a possible new variant will deter current sales.
My counterargument regarding this topic is that I choose not to proceed with the purchase of the base Emira (V6, FE, intro, or whatever you want to call it) due to credible leaks that a new variant is in the works. There's a search button at the top of this page; please use it. There's also a big thread on the Lotus FB group where people in Europe have leaked information. Therefore, I believe it would be better to wait a little while longer and get the Emira S. And if I'm wrong about the Emira S not coming to the US? No problem, I'll just buy a pre-owned Emira that's already depreciated enough with all the bugs and warranties sorted out.
As a dealer, you are not allowed to speak beyond what Lotus announces, and even if you receive information via confidential emails from Lotus, you're not allowed to speak publicly on the subject matter. It seems like everyone on this thread sees this, but evidently, you seem to be masking the whole idea and sweeping it under the rug. I'm sure you have no ill intentions of misleading consumers, but you're turning a blind eye in hopes of pushing sales of the regular model, followed by another sale from the same individual who wants to upgrade the regular model you sold him.
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Thanks for your reply. Actually, if Lotus were to announce a new version/model that would simply mean more orders. Three years in on Lotus Emira orders and not a single dime earned. Really looking forward to delivering them and seeing my customers smiles and excitement to collect them. And you bet eventually earning some revenue from being a Lotus Dealer (overhead is still there regardless of having zero cars to sell). Within a few weeks, we will be putting close to 100 new Emira's into customer's hands, some of them have been waiting since July 2021, me included. We offered all our ordered cars at MSRP. Any available cars that end up in inventory will be listed at current market value - Which is determined by the marketplace. You see owners already flipping their cars on eBay, and soon BaT etc. It's really not that big of an issue as there will be so few available open in total, most dealers were allocated fewer than 20 V1 FE's and there are very few cancellations. At our Store we are Lotus enthusiasts and have stuck with the brand longer than any other dealer in the US. Bashing Lotus dealers online in forums gets old and is not justified. Lotus dealers and service centers are important to the Lotus community, and most are genuine car enthusiast as anyone else.
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I've only seen the same three Emiras on eBay for the past month; they still haven't moved lol. In fact, one of them has had 5 price drops in the last three weeks. At least I agree with you that service centers are important, and that does require overhead expenses.
You're more than welcome to tack on any ADM you want because it’s your inventory, but it's bad image when you have other neighboring dealers selling and honoring those inventories at MSRP to consumers. Those dealers are the true MVP, and they know who they are.
I always appreciate a nice debate as long as it doesn’t get out of hand. Again, this is my opinion and you’re more than welcome to disagree with me. We don’t always have to agree with one another; only time will tell how this unfolds.
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Thanks. I would point out that your idea of an MPV dealer may have one or two cars open, and their allocations are small, whereas the bigger dealers like ours a putting many times more customers into cars and almost all will be at MSRP. Plus the few high rollers who want one right away and are more than willing to pay more for the convenience, we are the MPV dealer to them as well. It all perspective. The Emira is an awesome car, and well undervalued in the sports car marketplace. The 350hp Esprit in 2004 was $107k, the Emira 20 years later is faster, better built, better looking, and essentially in the same price point. - oh and way more fun to drive, which is what it is all about.
The waiting for a manual thing is just that....for those that feel they must have a manual. For the rest of us , esp folks like me most interested in the V6/IPS option, I am 100% certain there will be deals out there. Seen as Lotus had to crash test, EPA cert, Cafe cert etc, I have no logical explanation for their not getting a newer powertrain for Emira??????I locve our V6 but it is early 2000s technology. I sure as hell won't pay ADM for 20yr old tech.
Unless I start hearing that belt services, heatsoak, cooling issues etc are well explained, sorted out and addressed, The AMG motor has about a 1% chance of making its way into my garage. I have experienced german engineering....homey don't do dat. It is ironic the folks that want an I4 because it is 1/10th faster......it was always known the IPS car is faster than the manual but that stat gets ignored, by a 1/10th.....but everytime v one out of 10 for all but the most skilled drag racers......
So back to ADM. We have folks out there flush with cash in this era of ever expanding separation of wealth v non wealth. Let them give a pittance of it to their dealer...for the rest of us more normal wealthy types, we got that way by not being financially imprudent. My father would approve....
Lotus are a bunch of fools if they truly make this their last ICE car. The writing is already clearly marked on the wall with all the EV issues out there and that market is imploding. Even China knows this with lots full of unsold EVs. I fully expect Electre to be a dismal failure....and I was highly intrigued a few years back but the pathetic range numbers killed that thought. Good luck with ADM on those. They will be 25% off within a year if they even bring many over.
So Elise Connection, I have been with Lotus since 2005 and it would have been a decade earlier if a prick lawyer hadn't sold the Esprit we shook on out from under me. Classless move!!!
There is a VERY large contingent of us hardcore Lotus owner/track driver types that have ALL passed on the FE hype. We ALL know better....and if they start trying to squeeze 125K out of us on nominal upgrades, there are a few far more exceptional vehicles on my list in the 125-175K zone that will get serious looks...btw not a Z06 too fn ugly.
Several of these folks have significant Lotus collections and no shortage of $$$$ but don't see enough advancement. Emira is visually gorgeous, but there better be some significant upgrades to earn another one visiting my garage. We still don't know if our existing wheels etc will fit Emira. (Hopefully this will be clarified soon.)
My dealer and I have had frank conversations on these topics btw. He too, is frustrated. Just a pretty face has led to many the divorce.
Unless I start hearing that belt services, heatsoak, cooling issues etc are well explained, sorted out and addressed, The AMG motor has about a 1% chance of making its way into my garage. I have experienced german engineering....homey don't do dat. It is ironic the folks that want an I4 because it is 1/10th faster......it was always known the IPS car is faster than the manual but that stat gets ignored, by a 1/10th.....but everytime v one out of 10 for all but the most skilled drag racers......
So back to ADM. We have folks out there flush with cash in this era of ever expanding separation of wealth v non wealth. Let them give a pittance of it to their dealer...for the rest of us more normal wealthy types, we got that way by not being financially imprudent. My father would approve....
Lotus are a bunch of fools if they truly make this their last ICE car. The writing is already clearly marked on the wall with all the EV issues out there and that market is imploding. Even China knows this with lots full of unsold EVs. I fully expect Electre to be a dismal failure....and I was highly intrigued a few years back but the pathetic range numbers killed that thought. Good luck with ADM on those. They will be 25% off within a year if they even bring many over.
So Elise Connection, I have been with Lotus since 2005 and it would have been a decade earlier if a prick lawyer hadn't sold the Esprit we shook on out from under me. Classless move!!!
There is a VERY large contingent of us hardcore Lotus owner/track driver types that have ALL passed on the FE hype. We ALL know better....and if they start trying to squeeze 125K out of us on nominal upgrades, there are a few far more exceptional vehicles on my list in the 125-175K zone that will get serious looks...btw not a Z06 too fn ugly.
Several of these folks have significant Lotus collections and no shortage of $$$$ but don't see enough advancement. Emira is visually gorgeous, but there better be some significant upgrades to earn another one visiting my garage. We still don't know if our existing wheels etc will fit Emira. (Hopefully this will be clarified soon.)
My dealer and I have had frank conversations on these topics btw. He too, is frustrated. Just a pretty face has led to many the divorce.
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618 Posts
Even though I'm not a hardcore Lotus owner or track driver, I know better than to pay 120k+ for a base Emira when other dealers are posting all over the Emira FB group about canceled orders at sticker price - first come, first serve basis. In fact, one guy just posted this morning that his dealer has two FE models on the show floor for immediate delivery at sticker, with no markup whatsoever. At 120-125k for Emira, you're creeping into McLaren 570S territory lol.
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I've been a Lotus owner for 10 years, have also owned several C6 Z06's. Overall, I'd stay with Lotus if they really cared for their faithful customers but they've tuned many off and I'm not sure they'll win them back again.
Once this frantic rush to own an Emira is over, I believe we're going to see the same thing that happened in the past with all Lotus cars, dealers and the manufacturer giving huge incentives to move their inventory.
Lotus is still a small niche car that will never draw a lot of buyers simply because they have failed to be a company who cares about accessible servicing after the sale, you just can't expect buyers to drive hundreds of miles to service their cars, let alone have to possibly wait because of a shortage of parts available. You can't expect buyers to buy a car that in a few years may be almost impossible to get parts for, as has recently happened with older Lotus's. If Lotus truly wants to expand their clientele list, they've got to not only offer a car that is up to date in every way but also priced to beat the competition until they've proven they are worthy of having a higher price.
At the original price quoted three years ago on the Emira, it would have been a bargain and some buyers (including me) would have put up with all the shortcomings of owning a car that has very poor distribution of dealers and service. But now asking over $100k (E-Ray price) for a car that looks good but is far less powerful than its competition and is using basically the same Evora drive train, it just ain't justified! If what is happening over in Europe happens here, there will be a lot of used Emira' for sale on the used market in just a short time, and they have already dropped in price significantly in Europe. Time will tell.
Once this frantic rush to own an Emira is over, I believe we're going to see the same thing that happened in the past with all Lotus cars, dealers and the manufacturer giving huge incentives to move their inventory.
Lotus is still a small niche car that will never draw a lot of buyers simply because they have failed to be a company who cares about accessible servicing after the sale, you just can't expect buyers to drive hundreds of miles to service their cars, let alone have to possibly wait because of a shortage of parts available. You can't expect buyers to buy a car that in a few years may be almost impossible to get parts for, as has recently happened with older Lotus's. If Lotus truly wants to expand their clientele list, they've got to not only offer a car that is up to date in every way but also priced to beat the competition until they've proven they are worthy of having a higher price.
At the original price quoted three years ago on the Emira, it would have been a bargain and some buyers (including me) would have put up with all the shortcomings of owning a car that has very poor distribution of dealers and service. But now asking over $100k (E-Ray price) for a car that looks good but is far less powerful than its competition and is using basically the same Evora drive train, it just ain't justified! If what is happening over in Europe happens here, there will be a lot of used Emira' for sale on the used market in just a short time, and they have already dropped in price significantly in Europe. Time will tell.
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