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2ZZ-GE in any other production car?

44K views 29 replies 19 participants last post by  jlj3394  
#1 ·
I just noticed that the 2ZZ-GE versions of the Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe are no longer for sale in the US.

Are there any other cars sold in North America besides the Elise and Exige with our engine? Futhermore, I also wonder how long toyota will be manufacturing them.

I am really just curious, but I also suspect that the cost of replacing an engine would have to go up as they become harder to source.
 
#2 ·
Corolla XRS. There may well be other models currently available in other markets with the 2ZZ too.

Talk to the 3S-GTE guys, sounds like they've got all they need and that's an old motor :)

I'd imagine with all the Celica GT-S' out there that they've got to have a pretty extensive support network in place to support those cars as they age as well.

Thank goodness Lotus planned ahead, now if only we could've gotten the K20 :)
 
#3 ·
I happened to speak to a Toyota engineer I know. He told me this engine is now being built for only Lotus. The XRS, one of which I have, is no longer in production.

He also mentioned that Lotus/Proton is apparently not paying Yamaha for the engines on time.

Given that Toyota needs mfging capacity desperately, he doubts Yam will continue to produce this engine, and intimated that Honda wouldn't likely deal with a poor payer (but this is conjecture).
 
#5 ·
glb: Ugh :(

Anyone know the production numbers for all 2ZZ powered Toyotas? There's gotta be some kind of relationship with the number of cars produced and sold and the "old new" stock on hand for service and replacement.

Seems like there were an aweful lot of Celicas on the road here in the US, how many were GT-S's....?
 
#6 ·
They made about 20,000 Celicas per year. I don't know what percentage were GT-S... maybe 10%? With all the Matrix XRS, Corolla XRS, and Vibe GTs, I would think that there would be a good supply of spares for quite some time. Prices have gone up a little since I bought mine for $1600 (excellent condition and very low (<1K) miles). Look on www.car-part.com for used engines. $2500 seems to be an average price.
 
#8 · (Edited)
A guy on Spyderchat spent at least $14K, maybe $17K(?) getting a K20 swapped into his MR2 Spyder. It was the first one, so some custom parts had to be made and he probably paid some non-recurring costs. Those engines are expensive and hard to get. I've read of problems sourcing them for Ariel Atoms. (My car is an MR2 Spyder, too, with a 2ZZ, 6 speed, and lots of other goodies.)

Image

Here's how his K20 turned out... sweet. It was in featured in Super Street Magazine.
 
#9 ·
glb said:
I happened to speak to a Toyota engineer I know. He told me this engine is now being built for only Lotus. The XRS, one of which I have, is no longer in production.

He also mentioned that Lotus/Proton is apparently not paying Yamaha for the engines on time.

Given that Toyota needs mfging capacity desperately, he doubts Yam will continue to produce this engine, and intimated that Honda wouldn't likely deal with a poor payer (but this is conjecture).
Honda has stated they will never do business with Lotus again after a horrible show of business ethics in the late 70's (or maybe early 80's?). Don't count on Honda stepping up to supply engines to the Lotus powered vehicles.
 
#10 ·
#11 ·
matrix xrs
corolla xrs
celica gt-s

all w/2zz in it are no longer available
last batch of them were in 2006 and celica gt-s in 2005

Lotus is the only current 2zz production car
 
#13 ·
ChrisH said:
Why has Toyota dropped the 2ZZ-GE from its cars?
Obviously just a guess on my part, but I think:

1. Low sales of those models
2. High cost of the engine
3. Not a good match of engine characteristics to car type and probably usage

I think the Scion tC and the new xB with their 2.4 L engines is the way forward for Toyota...torque and flexibility.
 
#14 ·
Because Toyota only builds astonishingly boring cars now.
:wallbang:
 
#15 ·
the new supra is supposed to be coming???? v8 power though! 4.7 i force?
 
#16 ·
Taxcheat said:
Because Toyota only builds astonishingly boring cars now.
:wallbang:
+1, There's no money in sports cars for them, they're only built for image.
 
#18 ·
< minor hijack >

Man, I'd like to see the supercharged 300hp Ariel Atom Ecotech dropped into an Elise/Exige. It appears to be a pretty stout motor and the Brammo folks regularly sing its praises. Given GM's cash position I bet they're not too proud to selll it to Lotus/Proton... I wonder what a crate version of that motor costs and how hard it would be to swap into an existing car.

From Ariel's drivetrain spec page:

Introduced in 2004 on the Saturn ION Red Line, the Ecotec 2.0L SC (supercharged) also powers the 2005 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged coupe. It is compact and lightweight (see specs), and its Eaton M62 supercharger adds 40 percent more power to the Ecotec 2.0L engine compared to a naturally aspirated version. The M62 supercharger utilizes a helical roots compressor and integral pressure control and produces a maximum of 12 psi of boost. The boosted intake flow exits into an all-new matched intake manifold with an integral air-to-liquid heat exchange intake charge cooler system. A compact single-track, six-rib belt supercharger drive system utilizes a linear tensioning device to further strengthen the already impressive system performance and durability. A microprocessor manages the M62 supercharger, fuel, direct spark delivery systems and the engine’s 68-mm electronic throttle control (ETC) system. ETC delivers outstanding throttle response, improved reliability and better integration with cruise control electronics for greater overall performance and driveability.

With supercharged engines it is especially important to maintain a high level of lubrication that is effectively distributed to all moving parts. To that end, the Ecotec 2.0L SC engine is built with a large seven-quart oil sump and a crankshaft-driven pump. A block-mounted oil cooler is included to ensure proper lubricant cooling that promotes long engine life.

The Ecotec 2.0L SC engine is equipped with sequential port fuel injection and a 380 KPa /19.0 g/s returnless fuel delivery system that helps keep fuel cooler for more efficient combustion.

The 2.0L SC engine is built exclusively at the FGP (Fiat-GM Powertrain) engine facility in Kaiserslautern, Germany. This plant uses a die-cast production technique that yields a block that is well suited for high-stress applications including turbocharging and supercharging. Variations of this block are also found in various Saab and Opel models. Compared to the original 2.2-liter Ecotec, the 2.0L SC features the same cylinder bore with a shorter stroke (94.6mm vs. 86.0mm). The shorter stroke helps the engine rev quickly and deliver lively throttle response.

Often referred to as the Global Four Cylinder, the starting point for the 2.0L SC is the Ecotec 2.2L (RPO L61). This engine has leveraged GM Powertrain’s worldwide design and engineering capability by drawing on the best practices of technical centers in North America and Europe. The Ecotec 2.2L created a template for subsequent global powertrain development that laid the groundwork for engines such as Powertrain’s new Global 3.6L V6. Most important, the Ecotec 2.2L is a world-class gasoline engine with obvious benefits for the customer. At 307 pounds fully dressed, the L61 is the lightest engine GM has produced in its displacement class, and one of the most compact four-cylinders in the world.

Before going into production, every Ecotec engine variant is subjected to the toughest and most comprehensive validation process ever carried out at GM, having to pass all of the dynamometer and vehicle tests traditionally run by various GM organizations worldwide, including the most severe trials. Coinciding with the rollout of the Ecotec program, general engine durability testing on lab dynamometers was increased by 60 percent. This has been carried forward to the new Ecotec supercharged engine.
 
#19 ·
my 2000 celica gt-s has the 2zz-ge :-]

this was the best year celica because it's the lightest year and the ecu is programmed in a way where the 2nd cam hits pretty hard as compared to the later model gt-s's.

sometimes i find myself driving the celica like i drive the elise and almost crash...like this morning merging onto the route 78 highway coming to work in the celica, im WOT on a turn in 3rd..next thing i know im hitting 4th at almost 100mph and im like uhhh ohh must slow down..its only a damn celica with a suspension as good (crappy) as a little kids bike... i tap the brakes and the car is all over the place LOL wobbling and stuff ... close calls...
 
#20 ·
Nice collection of cars =)

The only cars that have the 2zz are the Toyota Celica GT-S, Matrix XRS, Corolla XRS, Pontiac Vibe GT, Lotus Elise, Exige, and Exige S. If you want a 2zz in a MR2 Spyder, it's now possible as well.

And as far as the 2zz being dropped, sales for the Celica GT-S started to lag once the Acura RSX-S came out and the Celica newness started to fade. Also, due to the close gears of the shifter, a lot of 00-01 GTS owners were downshifting to 2nd instead of 4th so a bunch of engines were being grenaded. Plus due to the 8,400 rpm fuel cut in the early models, a lot of owners kept on bringin the rpm's up and making the dealer replace blown engines from high revs. Lastly, abusive owners don't shift in sync with the c60 transmission's syncros, so grinding eventually became a product that had Toyota replace many transmissions, including mine because of the previous owner. To make matters worse, even though it was a great contendor with the other 1.8 L b-series Integra JDM GSR/Type R engines, the 2.0 L K series engines are now blowing our 1.8 L four banger out the water. It was only a matter of time until Honda upped the displacement on their high revving four liter engines again...
 
#21 ·
GTsRasta said:
Nice collection of cars =)

The only cars that have the 2zz are the Toyota Celica GT-S, Matrix XRS, Corolla XRS, Pontiac Vibe GT, Lotus Elise, Exige, and Exige S. If you want a 2zz in a MR2 Spyder, it's now possible as well.

And as far as the 2zz being dropped, sales for the Celica GT-S started to lag once the Acura RSX-S came out and the Celica newness started to fade. Also, due to the close gears of the shifter, a lot of 00-01 GTS owners were downshifting to 2nd instead of 4th so a bunch of engines were being grenaded. Plus due to the 8,400 rpm fuel cut in the early models, a lot of owners kept on bringin the rpm's up and making the dealer replace blown engines from high revs. Lastly, abusive owners don't shift in sync with the c60 transmission's syncros, so grinding eventually became a product that had Toyota replace many transmissions, including mine because of the previous owner. To make matters worse, even though it was a great contendor with the other 1.8 L b-series Integra JDM GSR/Type R engines, the 2.0 L K series engines are now blowing our 1.8 L four banger out the water. It was only a matter of time until Honda upped the displacement on their high revving four liter engines again...
Yea I already did the 4th to 2nd accidental downshift....after redlining 3rd, I hit 2nd on accident. The clutch blew but the motor was fine, even after probably revving to like 20k rpm LOL....it did make a loud ass noise tho and the RPM needle did pin out.

edit: oh and i raced my buddy with an 05 rsx type S from a roll and I pull on him with the 00 gt-s 2nd 3rd, and slightly in 4th. both cars bone stock maybe driver? i beat those gears in on the gt-s so theres like zero lag and he must not be shifting the rsx fast
 
#22 ·
danielg said:
edit: oh and i raced my buddy with an 05 rsx type S from a roll and I pull on him with the 00 gt-s 2nd 3rd, and slightly in 4th. both cars bone stock maybe driver? i beat those gears in on the gt-s so theres like zero lag and he must not be shifting the rsx fast
I bet it was his driving, good kill. The 02-04 RSX-S (K20a2 engine...I think) versus a GTS with a 8,400 rpm fuel cut is a drivers race (2002 & 2005 GTS have 7,800 rpm fuel cuts), but the 05-06 RSX-S (K20z1 engine...i think) may edge out due to the few extra horsepower and better gearing. I have yet to race a RSX-S, and there are probably at least A DOZEN of them at my college campus :( I don't seem to have enough luck to line up next to one...
 
#23 ·
GTsRasta said:
I bet it was his driving, good kill. The 02-04 RSX-S (K20a2 engine...I think) versus a GTS with a 8,400 rpm fuel cut is a drivers race (2002 & 2005 GTS have 7,800 rpm fuel cuts), but the 05-06 RSX-S (K20z1 engine...i think) may edge out due to the few extra horsepower and better gearing. I have yet to race a RSX-S, and there are probably at least A DOZEN of them at my college campus :( I don't seem to have enough luck to line up next to one...
hehe..true....what state are you in? NJ?
 
#24 ·
How fast are the Celicas anyway? What do they weigh?

My XRS is 2680 lbs, will apparently do 15.4 sec/93 mph 1/4 miles, as per dragtimes.com. (C&D got 15.8/90 & 7.1 0-60 mph with a new one on 8/04, using a "dusty, windy, high-altitude site".)

I added a couple of hp w/TRD exhaust (which may be made by HKS).

A Toyota engineer told me that these engines do not put out full hp until about 5k miles are reached. He says that this is to keep warranty costs down. He is rarely wrong.
 
#25 ·
The 6 speed manual GTS is exactly 2,500 lbs. It averages low 15's stock to high 14's with a really good driver, and if you're Celica is a 00,01,03,04 year GTS that has the 8,400 rpm fuel cut. The 02 and 05 have a 7,800 rpm fuel cut that hurts their 1/4 mile times BADLY. So far, I/H/E and Apexi PFC standalone ECU tuned celicas can see low 14's. A guy who stripped his car down to UNDER the weight of a Lotus Elise (like 1950 lbs) is now 13.5 on the quarter NA...but that's just overkill. I think a I/H/E/PFC/CAMS GTS with upgraded valves, springs, oil pump, and rod bearings to rev to 9,000 rpms could be a high 13 second NA car without any interior stripping.

danielg said:
hehe..true....what state are you in? NJ?
I'm out in long island :D I s0o0o0o want to go check out a Lotus meet here in the north east if you guys have any! I have yet to sit in one! Come bring your GTS or your Lotus to the Celica Seaside meet in July!!!
 
#26 ·
ChrisH said:
Why has Toyota dropped the 2ZZ-GE from its cars?
The Celica was dropped altogether.

The Vibe, Matrix, and Corolla are all in their runout model years. The 2ZZ needed some work to certify for '07 regs and Toyota decided it was not worthwhile. (Lotus obviously disagreed.) This is the same reason that the AWD versions of the Matrix and Vibe were dropped.

I suspect Toyota favors their torquier and cheaper 2.4L.