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81 - 91 of 91 Posts
Discussion starter · #81 ·
FMVSS 208 surprisingly does not include the front outboard passenger seat, only driver and rear seats
Very odd indeed, but this is government we're talking about. Logic isn't always the guiding principle. If it were, Californians would be able to enjoy any mods as long as the vehicle passed a present-day emissions test.
 
Discussion starter · #82 ·
OK, learning more in real time!

I couldn't stand the suspense so I went ahead and downloaded the very latest versions of all Evora service documentation. In the file "sn_wp_airbags_Evora_400.pdf", section WP, "Updated 23rd February 2021" discusses analyzing the SRS system using Lotus 20/20 software. Page 9 contains the following statement:

Once installed Lotus 20/20 will communicate via a CAN based systems which include; Engine management system, Transmission control unit, ABS, Instrument cluster and Tyre pressure monitoring system. Please note SDM (airbags) is serial comms on K-Line.
This confirms my theory that SRS is on K-Line and NOT on CAN. This is likely why generic standalone CAN tools often fail to access/reset SRS - they probably don't support K-Line. However, many of the generic CAN-to-USB cables do support K-Line. The trick may thus be to find a cable which supports both, and supports the J2534 protocol at the USB end, so 20/20 can access both CAN and K-Line on the OBD connector.
 
This confirms my theory that SRS is on K-Line and NOT on CAN.
In the updated WP 14 section, where it goes over replacing the clock spring and harness with a different one (since the original is likely NLA), they mention this:
Image


Which indicates 20/20 can delete SRS codes, assuming your VCI is also K-Line compatible.
 
Not to the SRS just onto battery feed leads to keep system live when the battery is disconnected, I was advised this was a way to prevent discharge of the system completely and therefore triggering the warning lights.

I was super careful when removing airbag, disconnected battery, left overnight for discharge removed fuse, and essentially treated it like a bomb about to go off on removing and replacing. I am aware of fatalities involving mechanics and airbags before they were so commonly known about - perhaps akin to the lithium battery fires we hear about, until the tech becomes known and commonplace the risks are there.
 
In prep of the seat install, does anyone know roughly what the torque specs are for the 4 bolts for the seat rail to chassis and the seat belt buckle? I don't do well with ugga duggas
 
does anyone know roughly what the torque specs are for the 4 bolts for the seat rail to chassis and the seat belt buckle?
On the S1, the rail is M8 and the belt is 7/16. If you don't have the manual handy, I just use the fastener size as a guild -- they are all steel. A MechE can explain why better than me.
 
essentially treated it like a bomb about to go off on removing and replacing.
100% this. Mechanics and insurance adjusters. No messing around!

@agentdr8 I swear I was able to scan the S1 SRS with the tactrix cable last fall, but if you guys aren't than I am probably remembering wrong. I wonder if there are different versions of the J2534 drivers.

@IDEngineer If you're feeling froggy, maybe try messing around with an open-source k-line UDS client and an OBDLink. I doubt it needs mode 0x27 access (no unlock key/magic packet). Or is it KW2k?
 
On the S1, the rail is M8 and the belt is 7/16. If you don't have the manual handy, I just use the fastener size as a guild -- they are all steel. A MechE can explain why better than me.
Just to save someone in the future a world of hurt. When you Google what to torque my bolt xyz to... Don't torque to the "recommended maximum" derived from 70?% of the tensile yield stress and an xyz K value... You're gonna have a bad time.
You'll notice the look incredibly high. Because they are.

(Those values are a recommended maximum if everything is put together in a nice controlled environment... And really don't plan on future disassembly/install)
 
Following the advice from the Lotus documentation posted earlier in this thread, I lifted the passenger seat and cycled the SRS connector two times. It made zero difference. Then I ran out of daylight so the driver's seat will have to wait for another day.

For the benefit of others who may want to do this, here are some notes. First, a photo of the seat heater connection:

View attachment 1268912

Note that the two adhesive tyraps holding the two heater harnesses are hanging in free space. That was a common theme under the seat. The adhesive mounts are worthless, they do not adhere to the seat at all.

Next, a photo of the SRS wiring harness and the connector in question:

View attachment 1268913

Look toward the bottom of the photo (which is the rear of the seat) and you can see another of those adhesive ziptie mounts, hanging in free space. Zero adhesion. However, the SRS harness and connector are held in place by three zipties which are themselves held to the seat by three of those push-in mounts like so many other automotive trim pieces use.

Now that you know what you'll see, here are my comments and observations.

1) Removing the seat floor bolts, especially the rear ones, is difficult and time consuming. They are hex head bolts and there is no vertical clearance for a traditional hex socket on a ratchet handle. I have a lot of tools and nothing I own would fit well in the available space. I resorted to a 6mm right angle Allen wrench to loosen them, then a 5.5mm ball-end Allen wrench to rotate them out.

2) Cut the three tyraps immediately. I tried to separate the connector without cutting the zipties. It's impossible, at least for me. I tried removing one, then two, and finally all three and it was still a contortionist's nightmare. And this was on the PASSENGER side where there is potentially more room.

3) The connector instructions say to pry the handle of a "suitable" screwdriver away from the connector body and harness. The instructions are wrong. Instead, take a 1/4 inch flatblade screwdriver and insert it as shown in the illustration. Then pry the handle TOWARD the connector body and harness. This is much more effective at releasing the latch and allowing the connector to separate.

4) Even with the above tricks... even after doing it once already, and then reconnecting the connector... separating the connector is a PITA. You need at least three hands but there's really only room for 1.5. The hand that has to hold the connector and manipulate the screwdriver would benefit from at least one extra finger and all fingers should be double-jointed.

5) You will be hanging upside down in the passenger footwell the entire time. I have no motion/orientation problems whatsoever and even I experienced a bit of vertigo when I finally got them separated and had the chance to stand vertically again.

6) For such an elaborate connector, there are exactly two contacts inside. The airbag connector contacts are gold plated. The vehicle's harness connector contacts are not. They might be nickel but look more like zinc. Such connectors can be the source of some excess resistance but I didn't see any corrosion or contamination. Nevertheless, I disconnected, reconnected, disconnected, and reconnected again (total of two "wipe" cycles) since I was under there anyway.

7) This connector actually comprises two connectors (one from each harness) and a central housing that has another of those trim-like retainer clips that snaps into the seat bottom. That red latch they warn you about retains the seat's connector to the central housing, which is why you don't need to remove it.

8) Pay careful attention to the Lotus illustrations. There are a lot of places on the central housing that LOOK like they should be latch releases, but they're not. You have to use the correct access point, and you must have the screwdriver in the proper slot (there are two, side by side).

9) Be sure to replace the tyraps with three similarly-sized units. The ones I used are 4.5mm wide and they appeared to be a perfect match.

10) When reinstalling the seat floor bolts there is no way I could figure to get a torque wrench in there to set them to 30NM - and I have several different kinds and sizes of torque wrench. The problem, again, is vertical access above the bolt head. I am a good judge of torque on a wrench so I used some blue (removable) threadlocker and torqued all four to approximately 30NM.

11) They aren't kidding when they say you'll have to reset the windows when battery power is lost. However, the procedure works exactly as described except that I had to hold the buttons down, then up, for much longer than I expected.

12) The latest Alpine head unit which ships in the Evora GT does NOT lose its programming when power is lost. Thankfully, it appears to retain everything in nonvolatile memory. It remembered and connected to my cellphone, it remembered the radio presets, everything. That's better than every other car I've ever owned.

After a good two hours of this, I started the engine and nothing had changed. The SRS light blinked a few times and then stayed on solid. So either the problem is under the driver's seat, or there is a genuine problem with some component in the airbag system. I really hoped it was under the passenger seat but other than gaining experience with the car, I accomplished little. Sigh.

Hope this helps someone!
Holy Cow tell me you have a resource to replace the red clips. I came across this post after I snapped both red clips trying to find the release. Do you have a copy of the connector instructions? Sigh a week late finding this.

In my haste to wrap up documenting my under-seat connector adventures I forgot to mention that I did find a broken tyrap on the seat SRS connector. I replaced it with an identical one. Here's a photo just before I trimmed off the excess material:

View attachment 1269082

This connector does NOT come out of the central housing... you can see the red retention clip in the photo above. The connector that does come out is on the other end, and is tied to the vehicle wiring harness.

The tyrap's strap had been snapped but the tyrap was still in place on the connector. The red and black wires have little grooves in their insulation where the tyrap pressed against them. No idea if the wires were tugged hard enough to snap the tyrap (that would take some serious force) or if the tyrap snapped during installation. I almost missed it, so it's easy to understand how it could have been missed in Hethel during vehicle assembly.

I mechanically checked that the wires were still engaged in their contacts. I did NOT electrically probe the wires to confirm continuity, as I don't know what signal is used to trigger the airbag and I wasn't interested in accidentally doing that. It's likely well more than my Fluke meter uses in its low resistance ranges but just not worth the risk.

Now that I look at it, that photo is useful in another way. Precisely where to use the screwdriver (mentioned above) is not necessarily clear from the Lotus illustrations, so here's an annotated photo:

View attachment 1269083

The locking tab area is a bit out of focus because I took the shot to illustrate the tyrap, but everything is still visible. The point is that the screwdriver goes into the slot nearer the central housing body ("under" the locking tab), not in the slot between the locking tab and its protective cover. As a reminder, once the locking tab is lifted out of engagement it is the vehicle harness connector on the OTHER end of this assembly (not visible in this photo) that slides out of the central housing. The SRS connector (shown above with the red and black wires) remains in the central housing.
Wowzers, missed this thread by a week, managed to snap both red retention clips off of the plug. Do you have a resource for replacement parts fpr the airbags? I could not find them in the shop parts guide or any owners manuals(of course). If you have a connector guide that would be great as well.

N
 
Discussion starter · #91 ·
I don't have connector data, sorry. Haven't broken one so haven't had to do the research.

Send a photo of the broken connector and we'll try to come up with a solution!
 
81 - 91 of 91 Posts