Don't compare it to the Evora then (which is likely much more expensive, and not a viable option for the companies future), compare it to its competitors. It's 0-60, weight, etc are all in line with its closest competitors price wise and spec wise right now (ie. Cayman GTS 4.0, BMW M2C/CS, C8 etc, not even going to include M4/M3 given they're not truly a competitor, no one is cross shopping a sedan and a 2 seater).

Its only ~70lbs heavier than a Cayman GTS 4.0, its almost 500lbs lighter than an M2C/CS, 250lbs lighter than C8.
It does 0-60 somewhere between 4 and 4.5, GTS 4.0 is rated for 4.3 and M2C is 4.0, C8 a bit of an outlier at ~3 seconds.
Horsepower is inline with these as well maybe down a bit on the BMW/C8 but higher with the closest true competitor being the GTS.

Happy to be wrong about this, let me know if I missed a competitor or got the specs wrong, would love to save money and not replace my M2C if the Emira is truly bad.

 

Not sure how much cheaper it’s gonna be than and Evora? With the bigger engine I read it can exceed 100 grand. Same as Evora gt. So I don’t think the faster loaded Emira is much cheaper than an Evora gt but we will see. The last model did sub 4.0 sec 0 to 60! The Emira will be lucky to do under 4.5! It’s half a sec. I’m not trying to be a jerk it just would’ve been way better if it was a little quicker than the last model instead of slower. It’s totally my opinion tho. Ok this will clear it up. Would you be upset if it had 50 more horsepower and did 0 to 60 in say 3.5 or 3.7? Nobody would! I guess it just looks so much faster than it is and I wish it was! It’s really not much to make it a bit quicker! They can do it and they should!

 

Yeah, I think my point is more so that the Emira is bringing a lot lot lot of new buyers who have never looked at an Evora is a realistic option, the people comparing Emira to Evora aren't truly cross shopping the two. So from a brand's perspective (ie. Lotus), starting a new car to attract new buyers who don't have any brand history, you compare to its competitors not your existing base as much, and in this case the Emira competes pretty well with its competitors, and given the anounced GBP pricing, it comes in at a really competitive price compared to them too, we'll see how it gets priced in NA.

Also, the Evora GT starts around 130,000 here in Canada and goes up to 160,000. If the Emira gets anywhere near that price, then I will happily hop on your train of "WTF Lotus", but I'm expecting it to be well below that to compete with GTS 4.0.

 

So a question for you all... how come the Evora was not as successful As the Emira will appear to be... does it come down to just looks and price?

 

Because the battery dies every week I think the Evora was overpriced! Used for say 70 80 grand was a better deal. No extended warranty was an issue for sure and it will be an issue with the Emira too.Maybe with the new plant they will offer that. If a car company doesn’t offer and extended warranty they are basically telling you they can’t afford to fix problems that your car will have after that and that’s def a negative! I drove almost every Super car at my buddies car club. Then I drove and Evora gt and it was def the best feeling car to drive besides lacking power. All the Emira wound need is more power and it can easily be a contender with the best. No not a 2000 hp 2 million dollar car but make it a little more money and give it 500hp Honestly with the Lotus handling and feel that would win over a lot of people.

 

Here in the US Evora gt is a bit over $100,000. I just went back to check and the high end Emira is gonna be the same. I understand want your saying about people who don’t really know past Lotus cars, but for people who do it’s not good to be slower. I guess I’m saying if it was a bit more horsepower or quicker new and previous Lotus followers would all be happy and to me that’s what they should’ve done. I mean say ur at the track, you come out of a slow turn , and an Evora gt passes you! Not good! Maybe the Emira will sell more than the Evora and they will make more aftermarket upgrades. Pulley. Cam, Ported heads. If that happens then I’m def in! However ill have to wait to see if that happens cause if it doesn’t then I’ll just do a used Evora gt. I still don’t I understand why they made it a little less hp? It’s the same engine! Just take it out of the Evora Gt and put it in the Emira. Even if it was the same hp it would be better than a little less!

 

It is the same HP as Evora GT? 416hp, theres a video where the guy confirms it with one of the Lotus reps iirc. There is also no word on NA MSRP yet so we don't really know where its going to land.

I honestly hope when the Emira does finally come out, we see all the folks who were stoked for it come here and complain how it wasn’t $80,000 like they thought they’d pay, and the ones who get the new E who don’t live close to a dealer will really regret their decision for purchasing it before the mandatory lotus 2 year waiting to work the kinks out period...

Dude I get it. You love the old lotus and seemingly really dislike the Emira. But you don’t need to be in every Emira thread gatekeeping the brand and talking **** about the Emira because it’s not an Exige and its bringing new buyers.

Lotus is trying to build a new brand for themselves and us new buyers who you’re hoping will be pushed away are the ones that’ll keep the brand alive and essentially fund more cool cars for you to buy. I know the lotus woes, I’ve followed the brand for a while and done my homework, and I’m happy to support the new lotus with my hopes that it’ll be different from the past and improve. Should try to have that mentality yourself since you seem to love the brand so much.

 

We don't know that it isn't going to have more power. They rolled out a pre-production model and said that specifications and things could change by the time of production. That means they're still working on it, and now that they know they have a grand slam smash hit of a car, they may very well start doing things they were hoping they could, but wanted to see what the reaction would be to the car first. Now they know. Selling out the first production run in a week, and scrambling to add second and third shifts for production has to be exciting for them. Now they know they're going to have the money to justify doing more than just what was necessary to get the car produced and hope it sells, so maybe we'll see some changes. Hopefully they'll add a few more colors, like white and a true Gold Leaf Team Lotus red, like they have for the Evija.

There's also the possibility that they're playing things close to the vest right now, because they don't want to give away too much to the competition. You can be absolutely certain every car manufacturer in the world has been watching this. If Porsche and others think the Emira isn't going to beat them in performance, and then the production cars suddenly have more performance than they were expecting, that's a smart move. Gives Lotus an edge in the marketplace because it will take time for the competition to match or beat them. Or I could be wrong, and what we see is what we get, although the designer of the car has already stated that the V6 has 416 hp, not 400, but even if that's it, I'm more than fine with that. For those that want a faster car, the i4 is the one that's going to deliver that. I'm not buying it for straight line speed, 0-60 times, or 1/4 mile times. This First Edition with the V6 and 6 speed manual, is almost more of an homage to what Lotus has been for the last 70 years than anything else. It's their last ICE car, and I want one. Period.

 

I honestly hope when the Emira does finally come out, we see all the folks who were stoked for it come here and complain how it wasn’t $80,000 like they thought they’d pay, and the ones who get the new E who don’t live close to a dealer will really regret their decision for purchasing it before the mandatory lotus 2 year waiting to work the kinks out period...

 

That's the old Lotus. This is the new Lotus, both the cars and the company. We'll see. If anyone is putting down a deposit on a car who's base price is listed up front as $82,889 U.S. (60,000 pounds) and doesn't expect to add any options, they shouldn't be buying it to begin with. I fully expect to be paying at least somewhere in the 90's, and maybe just above 100 with sales tax. Depends on the options and what I want. Once in awhile in life, I get a feeling about something being a very special 'something', and this car gives me that feeling.

 

I am curious.. so what do you drive now?

when was it ever said that the Emira was meant to compete against the Evora? Its a new product that is supposed to take sales from other brands..

TBH, if you are joining this forum just to bash the brand and do HP comparison, then forgive me for saying you probably have no experience on what the whole Lotus fuss is all about.

 

when was it ever said that the Emira was meant to compete against the Evora? Its a new product that is supposed to take sales from other brands..

I don't think it's accurate to consider the Emira as the replacement for the Evora. It's clearly intended to attract new Lotus buyers

According to Lotus their expected target is 21% of current Evora owners.

Lotus believes for the brand to be successful they need to have some current Lotus owners, specifically Evora owners make the switch to the Emira. Lotus hopes to get some people new to the segment and then take some sales from the 718 and F-type.

 

@Smash135 @GDBB

Head of Lotus Matt Windle said 416hp on video. The 400hp might be to underpromise/overdeliver or CYA for sound/emissions requirements in different localities. So that trickles its way into the estimated acceleration figure.

The Emira's 1,405kg weight is close to the Evora's and follows a European weighing standard that includes fluids and a 75kg human. Consider all the above with the following:

Further, Geely is transforming how Lotus operates. Geely bought them out in 2017 but maintained legacy practices (such has hand assembly) while Geely focused on restructuring their business plan and building out that $100M factory the last 3 years. The structural shift you see now should be similar to how Volvo changed in 2010 when Geely bought them out. Lotus dealers accepting Emira deposits in my state have to let Volvo dealers handle the financials. Traditionally, 2GR-FE related warranty claims would involve dealing with Toyota (fast/inexpensive turnaround in US). Curious to see how warranty claims change (maybe improve) if Geely/Lotus leverages the Volvo dealer network for Lotus-specific parts and continue using Toyota for drivetrain/powertrain.

 

@Smash135 @GDBB

Head of Lotus Matt Windle said 416hp on video. The 400hp might be to underpromise/overdeliver or CYA for sound/emissions requirements in different localities. So that trickles its way into the estimated acceleration figure.

The Emira's 1,405kg weight is close to the Evora's and follows a European weighing standard that includes fluids and a 75kg human. Consider all the above with the following:

View attachment 1292488

Further, Geely is transforming how Lotus operates. Geely bought them out in 2017 but maintained legacy practices (such has hand assembly) while Geely focused on restructuring their business plan...

Not much hand assembly for the Emira.

 

I have two criteria for putting down a deposit:

Getting past the first year to work out the inevitable bugs. If it's without gremlins, it will be the first such Lotus in history.

Better dealer network. Assuming basic depreciation, the only real way to financially rationalize plunking down MSRP for a brand new car is that with the new car you get a warranty. A warranty isn't of much value if the nearest dealer is 3 plus hours away.

This will be especially important as the first year gremlins, big and small, start to surface.

My last Exige still had a year warranty on it when the only 'local' Lotus dealer, Criswell, dropped Lotus (having been one of the longest standing Lotus dealers in the country). At that point the nearest dealer to me (I'm in Annapolis, MD) would've been in Pittsburgh. So I let it go.

I'd like to believe Geely has a plan for establishing a true, stable, accessible Lotus dealer network for the first time in Lotus history.

 

It is a British car so the "bugs/gremlins" are called "niggles" and yes the Emira will have some niggles. It will most likely have niggles in each year of production, but maybe more in the first year. For the V6 manual, Lotus is using the somewhat proven Toyota engine they have been using in the Evora, so I expect almost no niggles with the engine and the transmission. The niggles I am expecting with my first edition Emira are with the electronics and/or AC. As far as the poster above stating that the Evora battery dies almost weekly, there is a somewhat easy fix for the battery drain in the form of a battery cut off switch that I and other members have posted on this forum. My dealer is 3 hours away. Took the Evora there one time on an A/C issue and did not like the service department, so that experience inspired me to do any future repairs/maintenance/mods on the Evora myself. Best thing that could have ever happened as working on the Evora has added to the ownership experience. I put down a deposit on an Emira knowing I will probably have some niggles to work out and knowing it will have around 400hp. Would I have liked 450hp, yes- Would I have put down a deposit on the Emira if it had only 370 horse power- YES! Regardless of HP and 0-60 times I will almost guarantee that the Emira will put a smile on the driver's face every time it is driven.

 

Also unfortunately, in your area of MD, there weren't any reliable indies if I remember correctly. In our neck of the woods, Intermeccanica has been the indie go to for Eliges since 2005...but so reliable I never needed them except for a few complicated service items. I suspect choice Volvo dealerships will be all too real. Maybe Valenti gets back into Lotus???

BTW its called a Battery Tender. Keep them on all cars. Haven't had a battery die , except a 6 yr old X5 battery in 30 years. In fact, that is why I run Shorai's successfully.

 

Smash135, sounds like the car may not be for you. Despite the marketing, it's effectively a reskinned, updated Evora based on all the evidence I've seen so far. Same chassis, same drivetrain (in the V6), new exterior, better interior, new electronics. It will be competitive. If the Evora has ever been on your radar, I think you'll be happy, if not... maybe you have false expectations or you should wait to see how the First Edition plays out.

 

Think of it as a new car with an updated (amazing) chassis with 21st century build quality. If you need HP to survive, buy a used RedEye. Cheap and common as Vettes.

 

Build quality is unknown at this point.

This is Lotus' first go at automated production. There will be some teething issues.

 

This thread shows perfectly how the car enthusiast community is so in love with numbers and magazine racing! What's better is that the official numbers haven't even been released on the Emira and only conservative estimates have been thrown out... If these numbers are so important to you I think a Corvette is a better pick for you.

 

Getting my Evora GT and hitting the track with it really opened my eyes to just how bad the stat chasing is. Several new C8's that I could pass every session with ease because the drivers were so timid. But I am sure it would smoke me when they just held the wheel straight and floored it. If I am on the street I am not doing a clutch roasting stop-light tear to try and beat the car next to me with a full launch control, in downtown Chicago, where the next light is 50 yards away. It's all just so pointless. Same thing with lap times as some sort of indicator as to which car you should daily drive.

Bought the GT because that feel was incredible, and made everyday driving fun and exciting again even in sub 35 mph traffic. Something my (old) 911 couldn't do.

But anyways, different strokes for different folks.

 

Car hasn't even hit production and you're disappointed? It's like criticizing a base 911 Carrera for not being up to 911 GT3 RS levels.

Give it some time, I'm sure Lotus will release higher-spec variants down the line.

 

Car hasn't even hit production and you're disappointed? It's like criticizing a base 911 Carrera for not being up to 911 GT3 RS levels.

Give it some time, I'm sure Lotus will release higher-spec variants down the line.

Hope so

 

It is so awesome to see someone with 4 posts on LT, tell everyone how disappointed they are with a car they have never seen or driven.

 

There's "that guy" in every forum.

I don't think it's accurate to consider the Emira as the replacement for the Evora. It's clearly intended to attract new Lotus buyers, and the lower price point is part of that. It comes in two versions to allow a better competitive approach, one below the Evora - but well above the Elise - and one close to the Evora, for the folks who won't want to move up to the new 3rd car, which is supposedly coming sometime in late 2022. There's no money in selling a modern day Elise for $60k. If there were, they would have invested their dollars in updating the existing Elise, which would have been far cheaper than building a new car. I have to assume their business models said we can't survive selling 900 cars per year. They also couldn't sell a substantially better car than the Evora for the existing Evora price. So, basically, modify the Evora platform, which has amortized its costs over 12 years anyway, use engines that require little additional development costs, and same for transmissions. And make the outside and inside nicer.

That allows them to lower the cost overall, have two models that cost them the same (except for whatever they pay Toyota for the 6), priced at two different levels, but essentially one model (does anyone really think that it costs Porsche as much to build a base 911 versus any other 911 model as the price differentials would suggest?), then the new car, which will probably be priced considerably higher, and the SUV.

Precisely. I love Lotus', but I'm not into tracking my cars, so I'll admire Elise/Exige from afar. As for the Evora - tbh I never really warmed up to it.

The Emira looks to be a much better fit for me and it's exciting to see it being rolled out.

 

I don't think it's accurate to consider the Emira as the replacement for the Evora. It's clearly intended to attract new Lotus buyers, and the lower price point is part of that. It comes in two versions to allow a better competitive approach, one below the Evora - but well above the Elise - and one close to the Evora, for the folks who won't want to move up to the new 3rd car, which is supposedly coming sometime in late 2022. There's no money in selling a modern day Elise for $60k. If there were, they would have invested their dollars in updating the existing Elise, which would have been far cheaper than building a new car. I have to assume their business models said we can't survive selling 900 cars per year. They also couldn't sell a substantially better car than the Evora for the existing Evora price. So, basically, modify the Evora platform, which has amortized its costs over 12 years anyway, use engines that require little additional development costs, and same for transmissions. And make the outside and inside nicer.

That allows them to lower the cost overall, have two models that cost them the same (except for whatever they pay Toyota for the 6), priced at two different levels, but essentially one model (does anyone really think that it costs Porsche as much to build a base 911 versus any other 911 model as the price differentials would suggest?), then the new car, which will probably be priced considerably higher, and the SUV.

 

I respectfully disagree. The Emira, once optioned up will be a replacement for the Evora S/400/GT without the rear seat that maybe 5% of owners ever used. I strongly suspect loaded birds will be 110K++. The lesser motored version will be a similar to a NA Evora but with an extra decade of additional HP. NA Evoras in the right hands are no slouch at a trackesp in IPS form as I can attest to! There were some interesting reasons why they ever put a rear seat in the Evora , one being insurance...not that I ever noticed ANY difference between my 2+0 and 2=+2 versions. Your incite on the amortized cost s of the frame is spot on! The lower cost may also be attributed to less man hours, thus labor costs required to build one. It is quite apparent that they have done their homework esp considering the first run is already sold out! At least that's the rumour. Undercutting the competition on price is a key component to winning over new fans to Lotus. I await an announcement of a race team.....
For me, no big rush unless a silly deal comes along , say someone wants my 2013 NA IPS car with 3K miles, as new , new shoes for 52-55 due to the amazing Solar Yellow color.........my 2011S is fully sorted back out and back to its bad ass!d self again. When you can run within a second a lap on shot Corsas v a Turner e46 former race car that holds track records at WGI when it raced there in the hands of a very good driver ....no complaints. We are great friends and he forced me to stay in front a few extra ;laps so his student could see car control and consistency on shot tires....basically, had fun watching me sweat! drift the toe, etc The future is bright for Lotus

 

Pretty dang sure it will be as fast or faster than an Evora GT. Tranny tech alone is propelling the numbers these days

 

I think some techs from Criswell at a shop in Frederick Maryland

 

Be prepared to be surprised then. I expect we will be just that....Now if the just send a tech with car when testing to set tire pressures correctly...golden rule with a Lotus, Placard pressures get you damn close to ideal hot track pressures.....

 

Okay, so I have never owned a Lotus, I want to make that clear. I have never considered a Lotus before. They have all been really excellent drivers cars. The type of car that you feel one with and the experience is unlike anything else. They are track cars that you can drive on the road.

But at no time in the last 20 years has anything that Lotus has come out with won any type of "numbers" game. They have never been the most affordable option. They have never won 0-60 time, no quarter miles, no Car and Driver Lightning Lap victories. I don't feel like I should have to explain this but I guess I do, Lotus is about the driving experience, how the car makes you feel, and even in low speed situations being entertaining. They aren't about being handfuls on the road or on the track.

The previous Evora was always pegged to compete with the Porsche 911, had a back seat, an actual interior (even though it too isn't that good), and a price tag to compete with the 911. The new Emira is not pegged as that. It's a two seater, meant to compete with the Porsche 718 models. So to expect it to be priced to compete with the Evora is not being realistic. This Emira is kind of going against Lotus's of the past. It's meant to offer things that attracts new customers, and less so about catering to the past customers. It is being built in such a way that costs are reduced. The structure, engine, etc is cheaper to create because they are using past knowledge. They aren't developing new engines but instead going with a tried and true engine from Toyota and something different in the AMG. The interior is said to be on another level, like night and day compared to any Lotus of the past. This in turn broadens the appeal. They will be offering it in two set ups, one for everyday use and a harder core one for those who like to track.

When I hear people complaining about the performance numbers and how it's unacceptable to charge this much for a car with less performance, I really think they don't understand what Lotus is about. I'll give you a comparison that might illustrate the difference between the "number chaser vehicles" and what Lotus philosophy is, so let's look at the Mustang GT, Camaro, both excellent numbers vehicles, get more HP every generation, adding performance and better track times. Then you have Mazda and their MX-5/Miata, same price range as those, just as passionate owners, one of the best drivers cars for the money, but at no point do they ever attempt to match performance numbers with those who compete in price. The C8 Vette is the Mustang GT, and the Emira will be the MX-5/Miata. If you prefer numbers, get a Vette.

And before you ask if I would rather Lotus give us a 500hp version right out of the gate, or if it would be lighter, or whatever, honestly once you get to a certain point adding HP does not improve the driving experience, I would rather the nicer interior than be 200 pounds lighter, and I would rather have the driving experience that the Emira is promising than any other car on the market today. It truly is the last best drivers car to ever be produced. No other car will come with hydraulic steering, supercharged engine, manual, etc. This is it. If I won the Lotto I'd still want an Emira, I'd choose it over a Porsche GT3.

 

Okay, so I have never owned a Lotus, I want to make that clear. I have never considered a Lotus before. They have all been really excellent drivers cars. The type of car that you feel one with and the experience is unlike anything else. They are track cars that you can drive on the road.

But at no time in the last 20 years has anything that Lotus has come out with won any type of "numbers" game. They have never been the most affordable option. They have never won 0-60 time, no quarter miles, no Car and Driver Lightning Lap victories. I don't feel like I should have to explain this but I guess I do, Lotus is about the driving experience, how the car makes you feel, and even in low speed situations being entertaining. They aren't about being handfuls on the road or on the track.

The previous Evora was always pegged to compete with the Porsche 911, had a back seat, an actual interior (even though it too isn't that good), and a price tag to compete with the 911. The new Emira is not pegged as that. It's a two seater, meant to compete with the Porsche 718 models. So to expect it to be priced to compete with the Evora is not being realistic. This Emira is kind of going against Lotus's of the past. It's meant to offer things that attracts new customers, and less so about catering to the past customers. It is being built in such a way that costs are reduced. The structure, engine, etc is cheaper to create because they are using past knowledge. They aren't developing new engines but instead going with a tried and true engine from Toyota and something different in the AMG. The interior is said to be on another level, like night and day compared to any Lotus of the past. This in turn broadens the appeal. They will be offering it in two set ups, one for everyday use and a harder core one for those who like to track.

When I hear people complaining about the performance numbers and how it's unacceptable to charge this much for a car with less performance, I really think they don't understand what Lotus is about. I'll give you a comparison that might illustrate the difference between the "number chaser vehicles" and what Lotus philosophy is, so let's look at the Mustang GT, Camaro, both excellent numbers vehicles, get more HP every generation, adding performance and better track times. Then you have Mazda and their MX-5/Miata, same price range as those, just as passionate owners, one of the best drivers cars for the money, but at no point do they ever attempt to match performance numbers with those who compete in price. The C8 Vette is the Mustang GT, and the Emira will be the MX-5/Miata. If you prefer numbers, get a Vette.

And before you ask if I would rather Lotus give us a 500hp version right out of the gate, or if it would be lighter, or whatever, honestly once you get to a certain point adding HP does not improve the driving experience, I would rather the nicer interior than be 200 pounds lighter, and I would rather have the driving experience that the Emira is promising than any other car on the market today. It truly is the last best drivers car to ever be produced. No other car will come with hydraulic steering, supercharged engine, manual, etc. This is it. If I won the Lotto I'd still want an Emira, I'd choose it over a Porsche GT3.

Can I like this twice?

 

K, a viper Acr vs the Emira. Make sure there is No and I repeat No straight away longer her than 30 feet almost broke under 7.00 lap times at the ring. A real dump truck I guess Camaro Z28 track car? I coulda helped ya save money there I do understand what your saying, I do. All I’m saying is it would’ve nice if they gave the car 30 or so more hp than the Evora. It wouldn’t hurt sales if it was a bit quicker than the last model. That’s really all I’m saying. Would you rather it have 400 hp or say 430 or 450? I’m pretty sure everyone would pick the latter. Everyone is saying it’s cheaper look what ur getting for the money. Yea, the slower version is cheaper. The high end model is still priced like an Evora gt.

 

You will be faster if you turn in smoothly and use the brakes less...........

 

The Evora started out at 276hp and ended at 416hp. The Elise started at 118hp and ended at 245hp. The Emira is STARTING at 416 (supposedly). There will undoubtedly be improvements along the way and increased power. It certainly seems like it will end up cracking the 500hp mark by the end of its run.

 

That’s what I like to hear. Everyone else is claiming 416 is enough and in today’s world it just isn’t! I read it’s gonna have less than 416 tho, but I hope I’m wrong! 500hp would be GREAT!

 

Well….. now that it’s gonna beat the viper ACR around Nurburgring I’m rethinking everything I said!