From the UK, Euro and Australian websites Exige S Vehicle Specification, for example at: http://www.grouplotus.com/car/car_tech_specs.php?id=2#top click on Vehicle Description

"Brakes Servo-assisted, track tuned 4-channel Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) with Lotus/AP-Racing twin-piston fixed aluminium alloy front brake calipers. Brembo single-piston sliding rear calipers and 288 mm diameter, 26 mm thick front and rear cast-iron ventilated & cross-drilled discs. Uprated pads and stainless steel braided hoses. Silicon brake fluid"

My Bold - this bit of the description is different from the Exige.

Anyone know whether the US bound Exige S also has the braided hoses .... and what are uprated pads?

Also noticed the Exige S has the Track Brace as standard ....

Anticipating my Exige S in a couple of months I'm reduced to international Group Lotus sleuthing :drool: :drool: :drool:

You have quoted the Cup car spec not the S. the s in Europe comes the same as the std car.

On the cup cars they put different brake fluid, braided hoses and pagid rs14 pads.

There are a number of reasons they will probably not do this.

1. the car is not homologated with stainless brake lines, this means the car has to have them fitted after being registzered which means removal of the clam! I just did this and its expensive.

2. the silicon fluid is for racing and not recomended for the road as it requires different service intervals.

3. the pagids squeel like a motherf@cker on the road and tend to be grabby as they get up to temp....

Incidentally, the brakes are the weakest part of the S. I have spent a lot of time and money trying to get them up the job. As have many cup car owners who have even more power and weight. Theyare fine for the road though.

 

Ian

No - I quoted the Exige S spec not the Cup Car spec. Check the link and look under "Vehicle Description/Brakes" for Exige S.

I agree that there are a few reasons why RoW spec may mot make it to the US though

Chris

 

...

1. the car is not homologated with stainless brake lines, this means the car has to have them fitted after being registzered which means removal of the clam! I just did this and its expensive.

Are you saying that installing the SS lines requires removal of the clam? I have a set waiting to install - thinking I could do this myself as I often work on the brakes. Does this really require removal of the clam (on an elise)?

-RWarden

 

Ian

No - I quoted the Exige S spec not the Cup Car spec. Check the link and look under "Vehicle Description/Brakes" for Exige S.

I agree that there are a few reasons why RoW spec may mot make it to the US though

Chris

You are right. I recognized the text from when i was considering the cup car. I can only assume its a misprint, but it may be they are doing it for the 2007 cars. it would be good if they were coz as i said the stainless lines are a pain in the ar$e to fit.

 

Are you saying that installing the SS lines requires removal of the clam? I have a set waiting to install - thinking I could do this myself as I often work on the brakes. Does this really require removal of the clam (on an elise)?

-RWarden

Not sure about the elise...definately need to remove the clam on an exige though.

 

Clam removal is an easy process.

 

Clam removal is an easy process.

...but pricey if you have to pay someone to do it. There is also a little bit of filing required as well to be able to get onto the end of the hose at the inboard end.

 

I believe Bru is correct -- those are the Cup car brake specs. BTW, the brake fluid used is Castrol SRF -- $35US per pint. This is not only the most expensive, but the best brake fluid (highest wet boiling point of any brand). Also, it is not "silicon" fluid -- it's a synthetic racing brake fluid.

As an aside, Lotus Sport offers a front brake upgrade -- four piston caliper and two piece rotor (aluminum hat). It's standard on the '07 Cup 255.

 

Are you saying that installing the SS lines requires removal of the clam? I have a set waiting to install - thinking I could do this myself as I often work on the brakes. Does this really require removal of the clam (on an elise)?

-RWarden

You don't have to, but it will then require cutting to enlarge an opening to access the right front corner line. Open up the right (passenger-side) front panel and the grill before the windshield and you'll see what I mean.

 

Also noticed the Exige S has the Track Brace as standard ....

Anticipating my Exige S in a couple of months I'm reduced to international Group Lotus sleuthing :drool: :drool: :drool:

I noticed at LOG the Exige S has a yellow sway bar..

 

OK, since I posted the question, the Group Lotus website (the link in my original post) has been changed to reflect Ian and Jack's thought that the "upgraded" brakes are on the Cup - so I guess it was originally a mistake on the website.

But they still haven't corrected the Australian website yet ..... http://www.lotuscars.com.au/exige_s_vehicle_spec.htm Which still shows upgraded brakes for the Exige S

Spooky. Lotus is watching us

 

Don't bother. It is a pain in the ass on an Elise and it adds nothing.

How do I know this?

I tend to agree, i have done it but i think the abs/servo adds so much "sponge" to the pedal that the better brake lines are impossible to "feel"

For the future when i dump the abs and fit a proper race brake set up they will hopefully pay dividends..........

 

...Castrol SRF -- $35US per pint.

:huh:
Is there a source for pints?

 

IMHO Castrol SRF is not worth the price. I used to have a track car that had insufficient brakes. Motul 600 fluid consistently gave me more laps before my fluid boiled than any other fluid that I tried. I do not remember all of the fluids that I tried but SRF performed about midway between ATE blue and Motul 600. Motul is much cheaper than SRF also.

 

:huh:
Is there a source for pints?

My bad -- it's $35 per litre (no pint containers).

What took you so long to spot that mistake -- you're slipping.

 

I tend to agree, i have done it but i think the abs/servo adds so much "sponge" to the pedal that the better brake lines are impossible to "feel"

But aren't steel brake lines also for safety and robustness in extreme (i.e. track) conditions?

 

But aren't steel brake lines also for safety and robustness in extreme (i.e. track) conditions?

Yes they are better in that respect, but i think the reason most people do it is to reduce the soft feel of rubber lines which expand slightly under pressure.

Going to stainless lines usually gives a harder pedal with more feel, in the Elise/Exige S2 the ABS system and the servo combine to give a spongey feel thats way more than the rubber brake lines, therefore its hard to feel the stainless lines. Its still nice to have them though....(he says having paid a fortune to have them fitted )

 

But aren't steel brake lines also for safety and robustness in extreme (i.e. track) conditions?

Actually, no. That's why they are not approved for street use.

The advantage to stainless steel braided lines is that they can usually withstand higher hydraulic pressure (for when you really push the brake hard), and in many cases, it eliminates the expansion of the rubber brake lines (they expand slightly under high pressure).

The Elise apparently doesn't use as high a pressure as many other brake systems. Additionally, modern "rubber" brake lines are much stronger than they used to be in the old days. Both types of lines use an inner tube, and braiding on the outside of the tube to keep the tubing from expanding from the pressure. Modern lines using Kevlar, etc. are just as "tight" as the stainless steel braided lines. Modern lines have an outer rubber coating to encase the rest of the brake line and to protect if from damage.

The SS braiding is rather abrasive to other components, so that would seem to be a good thing - instead of sharp edges cutting up the rubber lines, the SS braiding will wear down the sharp edge. But that works the other way too - dirt and grit can get trapped in the braiding and grind away at the inner tubing. Additionally, normal rubber lines have built in strain relief to prevent the connections to the fittings at the ends of the lines from fatiguing and cracking - you want the hose to start fairly rigid, and get flexible gradually to prevent stress risers. SS lines don't usually have that built it (although more are getting that added) - that's why SS lines are not normally street legal (they are not good for long term use).

You see SS lines on race cars because they can take higher loads, but they are also required to be changed often (usually they need to be replaced at least every season). Normal "rubber" lines last for decades.

Given all that, it's not really a good idea to switch to SS lines on the Elise. They aren't as safe, require more frequent replacement, and provide no noticeable improvement in braking. And they are expensive.

All that said, I installed SS braided lines on my Elan - but not for performance improvements. I wanted to replace 35 year old rubber lines, and the SS lines were actually cheaper (the OEM lines are harder to get too). But I have no intention of replacing the "rubber" lines on my Elise - maybe in 35 years, but not until I actually need to replace the lines.

 

My Lotus Sport Elise came from the factory with stainless steel brake lines and silicone brake fluid???? As well as the track bar.
Other than that, great info.

 

Tim, thanks. Interesting information.

The advantage to stainless steel braided lines is that they can usually withstand higher hydraulic pressure (for when you really push the brake hard), and in many cases, it eliminates the expansion of the rubber brake lines (they expand slightly under high pressure).

That is what I meant in my question. For track use, when you are using maximum brake pressure, will the rubber lines hold up? I guess your answer is 'yes'.

 

So - I am still unclear on the need for SS lines on an 07 S. In my Porsche 996 after 12-15 hard laps at Thunderhill - the brakes would really fade. I had race pads but nothing on the lines. I thought it was because of the lines? I haven't taken my new Exige S out on the track yet - but do not want to experience the same kind of fade I experienced on my Porsche ... thoughts?

 

So - I am still unclear on the need for SS lines on an 07 S. In my Porsche 996 after 12-15 hard laps at Thunderhill - the brakes would really fade. I had race pads but nothing on the lines. I thought it was because of the lines? I haven't taken my new Exige S out on the track yet - but do not want to experience the same kind of fade I experienced on my Porsche ... thoughts?

It sounds like you should replace the brake fluid with something better, such as Motul or Castrol SRF. I use SRF, and it makes a difference.

 

You say the brakes would fade, do you mean pad fade or fluid fade?

1. Pad fade: you have a firm pedal but not stopping.

2. Fluid fade: you have a soft pedal.

I suspect you have the latter, and that this is caused by old or "stock" brake fluid. Upgrade to one of the better brake fluids -- Castrol SRF, Motul 600, AP, ATE Superblue, etc. and see what happens. You are probably boiling the fliud and getting a soft pedal.

 

Sounds right for what was happening on the Porsche.

For the Exige S - has anyone had the same issue?
Does the fluid change solve it?

 

I would bet five bucks its the fluid that faded.

Back to SS line be careful not to twist them when working on your brakes or well they can explode. "learned" it the hard way working on a celica with goodridge lines IIRC.