[Krazykevin]

The baffles are unique to the Evora GT. Only this model came with the baffled sump from the factory. When I replaced my baffles (aka gate flaps), i did a write up with pictures. Happy to share in a .pdf format with any and all. Simply send me a PM. Sipple92 - I sent you a copy already.

I did not know about the BOE gasket. I will add that to my write up. I used sealer, but it was a pain to pry the pan off. I was told (by Lotus) the factory sealer is likely more aggressive and it will be easier next time. I would like to have a gasket and will use that next time. Also, my gate flaps (after 2 years) were still in excellent condition and I think they would have lasted another year. The flaps were still like new, very flexible, no cracking or brittleness noted.

I also have a write up on the GRP DeCat updated from the article published in Lotus Marque and a maintenance schedule full of notes. Nothing special about the schedule, but the notes are definitely worth having as supplemental information.

PS. i loosed the sump pick up in lieu of the exhaust to remove the pan. It worked, but I recommend loosening the exhaust bolts as that is better IMHO and what Lotus says to do.

Mark

If your write up is well done, you should see if @RapidLotus is interested in adding it to his archive on his website.

 

[TNEngineer]

This situation is begging for an aftermarket solution that doesn't deteriorate in the oil bath. I guess I need to see how this all goes together to better understand what alternatives could be created. There are flexible materials that handle oil exposure... I think EPDM and perhaps silicone are OK, but "I know a guy" that could provide a solid answer. Then it's just cutting the mold and shooting parts.

Really, though, "if you never track or AutoX the car, maybe your risk of issue is low without the baffles?" seems like the real question here. Perhaps all but the most extreme users could safely remove the baffles to eliminate their risk of failure?

 

[carmandl]

The previous discussion talked about Moroso oil pans . . . do they not work on the GT? I installed the Moroso oil pan on my S1, while it was getting transmission work done.

 

[RapidLotus]

If your write up is well done, you should see if @RapidLotus is interested in adding it to his archive on his website.

@mark123, I'd love to post a good writeup to help others. Make a clean post on the subject and I will link to it or make a PDF and I will host it. Both work for me.....

 

[YVR_evoraGT]

I'm in the process of doing these flaps in the next week or so.
I ordered the BOE gasket yesterday (shipment notification today) and Sherman @ Hethelsport shipped out the flaps on Monday.

If anyone wants pics for a how-to write up, I'm happy to share while I do this. It seems like this maintenance issue would make a great write up.

**editing to reflect I'm a dummy and didn't look close enough at the front exhaust flange, that needs to be loosened, to allow the pan to drop down. 14mm deep socket will do the trick.
For some reason I was thinking there was a bolt I needed to reach from above, and upon looking closer, realized the 14mm nuts loosen from the bottom.

 

[HethelSport]

To add some discussion to the posts above, my two cents:

• The gates are not designed by Lotus. They are however white label meaning they are designed & manufactured by a third party and produced for Lotus with Lotus branding to be distributed by Lotus. These flaps have been around for decades and are almost exclusively used in competition cars where the engine is freshened every 20-50 hours or at least once a season.
• The gates do not help oil circulation in the pan. They actually prevent circulation so the oil stays near the pickup tube. Essentially, they are a one-way valve.
• Brittle, deteriorating gates will not directly lead to oil leaks... it will likely actually be worse as oil will be blocked in internal oil passages in the engine block or at the pickup tube. This reduction in lubrication could lead to catastrophic engine failure which could lead to a blown engine. (Just rambling: Famously, a decade? ago, an IndyCar team retired a car officially because of low oil pressure ...that was caused by a hole in the block! This was to protect the engine supplier.)
• The advantage for a baffled pan is less for autocrossing and more for long, fast, sustained turns where the oil sloshes to one side for more than a few seconds. (I'm not saying it doesn't help a/x but rather the other scenario typically benefits more.)
• Using the less expensive generic gates made by the same OEM will be fine on a practical basis but I would guess Lotus could deny warranty coverage if their own parts were not used. I'd suggest using the Lotus ones for this reason alone--saving the $20 is simply not worth it in my opinion.
• For the overwhelming majority, eliminating the gates will not harm the engine but again, is likely to harm your warranty.
• I'm not totally sure but Fel-pro gaskets are rarely used with RTV sealant. If it is used, it's only used at critical points and not throughout--this is very application specific. If anything, it defeats one of the prime benefits of an easier-to-remove solution.

Also,

• These gates are a good example of why competition parts belong on competition cars. Canyon carving and high-performance driving events (HPDE) can be intense but they are nowhere as rigorous as an all-out wheel-to-wheel race. Limited access, two-year life cycle parts should not be found on a car that is as enjoyable & appropriate for daily driving as ours.
• Typically (meaning there are exceptions), baffled oil pans are only needed on cars running slicks. Conventional cars don't typically generate enough g-forces to starve a well-designed oil system. Modern cars are making this exception more common although most modern high-g cars are also going to dry sumps. (As mentioned, I know there are exceptions, perhaps even here.)
• Ask around and see how many people have blown an engine at the track because of oil starvation? I know some people will say "I have" but overall, it's a rarity. And in some cases, there are other attributing circumstances, perhaps a tune with a higher redline, slow shifting (aka higher sustained RPMs--if your banging 7k RPMS at 9/10ths on a high speed, high sustained turn... you probably really need to upshift--not for engine longevity but for cornering stability), higher HP or torque output, insufficient cooling, deferred maintenance.
• There was mention of retrofitting 400 and Emiras with the red baffled pan. If you're considering this, please ask yourself if this solution is solving a problem that You have. This is a good question to ask for any modification and one we ask before introducing new products. And if the answer is simply, because-I-want-it, that's totally cool but make it a conscience & deliberate decision.

Hopefully, I haven't offended anyone. If so, that was not my intention. I hope this contributes. --Sherman

 

[TNEngineer]

I was going to email but since you're commenting on this topic: I see you're out of stock on the baffles. Any coming in soon? And what's the long term plan when Lotus inevitably makes these OEM baffles NLA?

 

[agentdr8]

And what's the long term plan when Lotus inevitably makes these OEM baffles NLA?

Moving to a non-baffled pan would probably be the easiest.

 

[blackthought_]

To add some discussion to the posts above, my two cents:

• The gates are not designed by Lotus. They are however white label meaning they are designed & manufactured by a third party and produced for Lotus with Lotus branding to be distributed by Lotus. These flaps have been around for decades and are almost exclusively used in competition cars where the engine is freshened every 20-50 hours or at least once a season.
• The gates do not help oil circulation in the pan. They actually prevent circulation so the oil stays near the pickup tube. Essentially, they are a one-way valve.
• Brittle, deteriorating gates will not directly lead to oil leaks... it will likely actually be worse as oil will be blocked in internal oil passages in the engine block or at the pickup tube. This reduction in lubrication could lead to catastrophic engine failure which could lead to a blown engine. (Just rambling: Famously, a decade? ago, an IndyCar team retired a car officially because of low oil pressure ...that was caused by a hole in the block! This was to protect the engine supplier.)
• The advantage for a baffled pan is less for autocrossing and more for long, fast, sustained turns where the oil sloshes to one side for more than a few seconds. (I'm not saying it doesn't help a/x but rather the other scenario typically benefits more.)
• Using the less expensive generic gates made by the same OEM will be fine on a practical basis but I would guess Lotus could deny warranty coverage if their own parts were not used. I'd suggest using the Lotus ones for this reason alone--saving the $20 is simply not worth it in my opinion.
• For the overwhelming majority, eliminating the gates will not harm the engine but again, is likely to harm your warranty.
• I'm not totally sure but Fel-pro gaskets are rarely used with RTV sealant. If it is used, it's only used at critical points and not throughout--this is very application specific. If anything, it defeats one of the prime benefits of an easier-to-remove solution.

Also,

• These gates are a good example of why competition parts belong on competition cars. Canyon carving and high-performance driving events (HPDE) can be intense but they are nowhere as rigorous as an all-out wheel-to-wheel race. Limited access, two-year life cycle parts should not be found on a car that is as enjoyable & appropriate for daily driving as ours.
• Typically (meaning there are exceptions), baffled oil pans are only needed on cars running slicks. Conventional cars don't typically generate enough g-forces to starve a well-designed oil system. Modern cars are making this exception more common although most modern high-g cars are also going to dry sumps. (As mentioned, I know there are exceptions, perhaps even here.)
• Ask around and see how many people have blown an engine at the track because of oil starvation? I know some people will say "I have" but overall, it's a rarity. And in some cases, there are other attributing circumstances, perhaps a tune with a higher redline, slow shifting (aka higher sustained RPMs--if your banging 7k RPMS at 9/10ths on a high speed, high sustained turn... you probably really need to upshift--not for engine longevity but for cornering stability), higher HP or torque output, insufficient cooling, deferred maintenance.
• There was mention of retrofitting 400 and Emiras with the red baffled pan. If you're considering this, please ask yourself if this solution is solving a problem that You have. This is a good question to ask for any modification and one we ask before introducing new products. And if the answer is simply, because-I-want-it, that's totally cool but make it a conscience & deliberate decision.

Hopefully, I haven't offended anyone. If so, that was not my intention. I hope this contributes. --Sherman

This is great Sherman, Thanks. What’s the difference between the red oil pan and the others? My GT has a red oil pan, I imagine it still has the oil flaps?

 

[HethelSport]

Any coming in soon? And what's the long term plan when Lotus inevitably makes these OEM baffles NLA?

Yes, thanks for asking! We have more on the way... should be leaving the UK any day now. Long term, after the warranty is out, these gates are readily available from a lot of speed shops--as long as people race, there will be a supply (and if these become no-longer-available from Lotus, we'll stock alternatives). Or as @agentdr8 wrote, swap to a non-baffled pan for a daily/weekend car--I'm sure a ton of folks would do a straight trade with you.

If you find the gates on a cheapie or knock-off site, it would be prudent to stay away. These are not made of rubber (or at least not pure rubber), and I'd be surprised if the cheapie ones uses the oil-resistant material.

What’s the difference between the red oil pan and the others? My GT has a red oil pan, I imagine it still has the oil flaps?

All Lotus Evora baffled pans are red... just their simple way to ID them from a distance. So yep, if you have a factory red pan, Lotus recommends remove-&-replacing the gates every two years. BTW, any schedule is based on the gates sitting in oil and is not (or at least not solely) based on miles or heat cycles.

I hope this helps. --Sherman

 

[scv]

To add some discussion to the posts above, my two cents:

• The gates are not designed by Lotus. They are however white label meaning they are designed & manufactured by a third party and produced for Lotus with Lotus branding to be distributed by Lotus. These flaps have been around for decades and are almost exclusively used in competition cars where the engine is freshened every 20-50 hours or at least once a season.
• The gates do not help oil circulation in the pan. They actually prevent circulation so the oil stays near the pickup tube. Essentially, they are a one-way valve.
• Brittle, deteriorating gates will not directly lead to oil leaks... it will likely actually be worse as oil will be blocked in internal oil passages in the engine block or at the pickup tube. This reduction in lubrication could lead to catastrophic engine failure which could lead to a blown engine. (Just rambling: Famously, a decade? ago, an IndyCar team retired a car officially because of low oil pressure ...that was caused by a hole in the block! This was to protect the engine supplier.)
• The advantage for a baffled pan is less for autocrossing and more for long, fast, sustained turns where the oil sloshes to one side for more than a few seconds. (I'm not saying it doesn't help a/x but rather the other scenario typically benefits more.)
• Using the less expensive generic gates made by the same OEM will be fine on a practical basis but I would guess Lotus could deny warranty coverage if their own parts were not used. I'd suggest using the Lotus ones for this reason alone--saving the $20 is simply not worth it in my opinion.
• For the overwhelming majority, eliminating the gates will not harm the engine but again, is likely to harm your warranty.
• I'm not totally sure but Fel-pro gaskets are rarely used with RTV sealant. If it is used, it's only used at critical points and not throughout--this is very application specific. If anything, it defeats one of the prime benefits of an easier-to-remove solution.

Also,

• These gates are a good example of why competition parts belong on competition cars. Canyon carving and high-performance driving events (HPDE) can be intense but they are nowhere as rigorous as an all-out wheel-to-wheel race. Limited access, two-year life cycle parts should not be found on a car that is as enjoyable & appropriate for daily driving as ours.
• Typically (meaning there are exceptions), baffled oil pans are only needed on cars running slicks. Conventional cars don't typically generate enough g-forces to starve a well-designed oil system. Modern cars are making this exception more common although most modern high-g cars are also going to dry sumps. (As mentioned, I know there are exceptions, perhaps even here.)
• Ask around and see how many people have blown an engine at the track because of oil starvation? I know some people will say "I have" but overall, it's a rarity. And in some cases, there are other attributing circumstances, perhaps a tune with a higher redline, slow shifting (aka higher sustained RPMs--if your banging 7k RPMS at 9/10ths on a high speed, high sustained turn... you probably really need to upshift--not for engine longevity but for cornering stability), higher HP or torque output, insufficient cooling, deferred maintenance.
• There was mention of retrofitting 400 and Emiras with the red baffled pan. If you're considering this, please ask yourself if this solution is solving a problem that You have. This is a good question to ask for any modification and one we ask before introducing new products. And if the answer is simply, because-I-want-it, that's totally cool but make it a conscience & deliberate decision.

Hopefully, I haven't offended anyone. If so, that was not my intention. I hope this contributes. --Sherman

Very cogent post; thank you. With this, and reference posts following, should be obvious that the baffled pan is a solution in search of a problem (and for those modifying the car for aggressive track/wheel to wheel racing I woud hope understand the car built for street driving needs changes eveywhere and with the understanding this is a choice not a problem). Switching to non baffled pan, certainly for "street" use seems appropriate and reasonable to avoid high cost of flap replacement.

 

[TNEngineer]

Switching to non baffled pan, certainly for "street" use seems appropriate and reasonable to avoid high cost of flap replacement.

Corollary question: Would simply removing the flaps from the baffled red pan also be a reasonable choice? Far less expensive (read: free) and a one-time "mod" that would eliminate the need to remove the pan in the future. Would this be a safe alternative for those who don't track the car?

 

[Frohst]

To follow up on the gate stuff - I asked Wilhelm about his gates. He says he has seen no degradation in 4+ years and that they are HBNR. You can Google all sorts on HBNR stability in oil at higher temp - usually done for o-ring seal capability.

There are an infinite different formulations and percentages for HBNR so you can only draw loose and broad similarities, but what I was seeing was:

For static/o-ring application they are great in oil.
Below 70C oil temp they get brittle very slow. Above 130C they get brittle very fast.

Given the amount of ink on HBNR for oil immersion for auto purposes I'd be very surprised if the lotus gates were a diff material.

 

[Dan H.]

I will attest to the dealer cost. It was $1,100.

 

[mark123]

Clarification / Info relative to the above comments. Too many to reference.

My write-up on the baffle change is in a .pdf format with pictures. I PM'd and shared with @RapidLotus and @YVR_evoraGT. I will share with anyone who asks.

I changed the gate flaps last year. As you can read, the pan is really stuck to the engine and I did not like prying as much as I did to remove it. I was and am considering removing the flaps and not using them. So, at LOG last year I asked Lotus some questions. Long story short. The flaps in the pan are recommended for track use and will make a difference in long, sustained turns (as stated above). The flaps are not needed for street use. You can use the baffled pan without the flaps on the street. Like it was said, the flaps act as a one way valve to keep more oil in the center at the pickup. They recommended you modify an Evora 400 with the baffled sump if you track the car. In the pic below.

the pickup sets inside the circular area. The black pieces are the rubber gate flaps and they swing open from the top and into the center pickup area.

The baffled sump is specific to the GT, the 400 was also tracked without the baffled sump (by Lotus). Even without the flaps, there are some metal baffles to limit sloshing, although the flaps make a definite difference. As I understand, the Emira does NOT have the baffled sump. I'm curious to see if Lotus will modify/add the baffled sump to the Emira for their driving academy.

My personal assessment, if you regularly track your car or use slicks. Use the baffled sump. For infrequent track use, Lotus says to still get/have the baffled sump, and it's good, but it's probably not that critical on street tires (IMHO). I say this because they advertised the 400 as a street/track car, without the baffled sump. You can assess what infrequent means to you, for me I would say =<1 per year average. Also consider at how hard you drive and the sustained g's you pull.

 

[HethelSport]

Corollary question: Would simply removing the flaps from the baffled red pan also be a reasonable choice?

I would not remove the flaps while the car is under warranty but afterwards, while not ideal, it might be okay. A baffled pan without the gates would be worse than a non-baffled pan. I can see a manufacturer claiming, after the oil is sloshed away, the rigid steel baffles were a barrier for the oil to return quickly to the pickup tube.

Considering how capable our cars are, and how they sorta beg to be driven spiritedly, I would not recommend it. You never know who is going to drive your car or if you decide to have fun on the track, even at moderate speeds.

 

[scv]

Corollary question: Would simply removing the flaps from the baffled red pan also be a reasonable choice? Far less expensive (read: free) and a one-time "mod" that would eliminate the need to remove the pan in the future. Would this be a safe alternative for those who don't track the car?

[writeup done prior to above 2 postings!]
Doing thus one is left with a plate in sump (from which baffles were attached) I would think, unless the plate is easily removed? Then sump would be entirely open as in all previous non baffled pans......perhap members with more experience/knowledge of the pan could answer whether or not leaving a flat plate without baffles would be problematic (if plate not easily removable)?? If easily removable, great, if not and of no consequence, also great, and most economic "mod"!?

 

[mark123]

I would not remove the flaps while the car is under warranty but afterwards, while not ideal, it might be okay.

Agree. Especially if you tracked the car. Per Lotus it is ok for a street car, the only caveat they gave me was to tell any potential buyer the flaps are not installed - fair.

A baffled pan without the gates would be worse than a non-baffled pan. I can see a manufacturer claiming, after the oil is sloshed away, the rigid steel baffles were a barrier for the oil to return quickly to the pickup tube.

The argument in the second sentence doesn't make sense to me and if a manufacturer tried it, then I would disagree and argue. They might try it, like you said, hopefully not. Wouldn't be the first or last time an argument didn't make sense. I can also see an argument of well you modified the car, and we don't know if the modification cause the problem or not regardless of the specific modification. An issue in any warranty consideration.

For SCV - The plates appear welded in and are not removeable. Easier to buy a Lotus/Toyota oil pan. But there is no issue I can think of or am aware of with removing the flaps and keeping the fixed metal baffles in a street car (ref my prior comments).

FYI - There are small holes at the bottom of metal baffles to allow oil flow throughout the pan.

 

[blackthought_]

Stupid question, there no way to check the condition of the flaps, correct? Understand you would have to open the damn thing to see how brittle or not they are

 

[TNEngineer]

Correct. Must remove the pan to inspect.

I think I will remove mine when my warranty expires in July. That will be three years on the originals, and while I've religiously kept the oil fresh and clean, I don't intend to track the car. The risk of deterioration is greater than the risk of oil starvation on a track.

I will definitely buy at least one set of new baffles from Sherman as soon as they're back in stock. That way I'll have them if I do decide to get more aggressive with the car.