ABS events will help. Bleed again afterwards and you should notice an improvement.

 

If the brakes are firm after the free play is taken up, bleeding won't help because bleeding isn't the problem. There are lots of small points of slop in the mechanical side of the system that add up to an inch or so of free play before mine engages. Google shows people talking about on here since '05, so I've just never paid it much mind. Supposedly you can adjust the actuator rod, but I've never tried.

But that does seem to go against your claim it was perfect beforehand, but it's also possible that, with the improved bleeding you've done, the difference between the slop and engagement point is now more sharply defined, so you simply didn't notice it before. Honestly, this is the best-case scenario since it means you didn't do anything wrong.

 

Interesting point. I think certainly it doesn't feel like any other braking system I've had, but I do feel it was much firmer overall before I did all the work. I think I'll give the ABS engagement and then rebleed a shot and see what happens, if nothing comes from that then I'll look to adjusting the brake pedal slightly.

 

I had the same issue. I tried the gravel road with no luck. The only way "I" could rectify it was to take it the nearest dealer and have them connect the proprietary scan tool that opens the ABS system for proper bleeding. Good luck!

 

Did you happen to empty the master cylinder during your work? You could be in need of a bench bleed.

 

I didn't let the level in the reservoir go below the max mark once during the bleed so no.

 

Sounds like a caliper has a bubble in one place still. All it takes. Ignore it for 100 miles of driving on highways with expansion joints etc. Evora was a PIA with bleeding the rack and only thing that would cure it was some prolonged rough concrete roads that would literally have the steering wheel vibrating in your hands like it was out of control. Then suddenly solid again.

 

My last ditch will be to go find a dirt road and see if I can get the ABS to kick in a few times and then try and rebleed.

ABS events will help. Bleed again afterwards and you should notice an improvement.

You don't need to go on a dirt road to induce ABS. Just find a normal deserted road and hammer the brakes to get the ABS to engage.

A year or so ago (or whenever) after I had SS lines and new brake fluid, I had the same soft pedal issues. I did three ABS stops on the Sea-to-Sky (on one of my 3am drives) just past Shannon Falls leading up to Chances casino, and that firmed my pedal back up completely like it had been before. Problem solved (at least in my case).

 

I can't seem to get it to engage on the street, which probably is the case that my pedal just isn't hard enough to put pressure on it. I just went out for a rip here on a dirt road (not hard to find in Chilliwack) and stomped it a few dozen times. I will rebleed and see what happens.

 

What is your method of bleeding? Pressure bleed? Or old fashioned pump the brakes and bleed? And did you bleed the clutch?

 

Pressure bleeding using a motive bleeder, and yes I bled the clutch. Clutch feels great.

 

Nail it hard at 80-100mph! Stab it several times too. Think ruthless like a deer just crossed in front of you!!!

 

Just gave it hell on a dirt road quite a few times. Gonna let it cool off and then get it back up on the stands and try bleeding again.

 

Are you doing a pressure bleed, vacuum bleed, old school peddle bleed (with one way bottle attached)?

 

Pressure bleeding using a motive bleeder

 

For me - turning the calipers over while bleeding allowed the last bit of air to get out. I know it sounds wacky. But it worked for me. once there's air in the lines it always rises to the top. I had to remove the calipers, turn them upside down, bleed them and put them back. After that I got 85% of my brake firmness back. I still haven't tried the ABS trick to go after the other 15%.

 

You think I still need to do this with the QWKbleed lines I have installed on my fronts? I kind of figured that was the whole idea with them was to not have to do the flippity flop.

 

I will reinforce two points brought up in this Topic, in the above posts:

1. Un-bolt and turn over the calipers when bleeding. Apparently they can trap a bit of air inside on Elises.​

​

2. Do a couple rapid pumps while manually bleeding the pedal, the velocity will help purge air.​

​

++++++++++++++

Our Elise's brakes actuate at a lower point in pedal travel than our other cars... matter of fact, another owner commented on this trait when we switched rides. But they are firm and easily modulated, so I have just assumed that the pedal rod needs to be adjusted.

Good luck!

 

it may sound silly to ask but just to verify: you have the correct caliper on the correct side, with the crossover tube facing down, correct?

 

Yes... lol this isn't my first time rebuilding or bleeding calipers, just my first time on a Lotus. I went with the QWKbleed lines as I spent far too long researching and hoping to avoid these kinds of issues with those front AP calipers.

 

I am curious if there is a possibility that my brake pedal is now just actually set too far forward... maybe someone can tell me but I was reading and it seems like people often want to raise the brake pedal to make heel toe easier by getting it inline with the throttle pedal. Well, looking at my pedal box my throttle pedal sits farther back than my brake pedal at rest. I am wondering if adjusting the brake pedal down a bit may help here?

 

Worth trying:
Take a pad out[cause brand new pads]or put an old well worn pair in
pump to extend the pistons.
Push them back in with clamp screwdriver,/whatever
all four corners
Point is to push a bunch of fluid backwards.
Make sure the reservior doesnt overflow

 

Worth trying:
Take a pad out[cause brand new pads]or put an old well worn pair in
pump to extend the pistons.
Push them back in with clamp screwdriver,/whatever
all four corners
Point is to push a bunch of fluid backwards.
Make sure the reservior doesnt overflow

Yea, this was one of the first things I did just to dislodge things. I feel like I am making slow progress. It feels better with each bleed although not much air is coming out.

 

I've been using a Motive bleeder for years and there is a bit of a trick to them. For instance, while bleeding you may see a bunch of bubbles, then a solid stream, and you think you are done and close the nipple and move on. This sounds strange but you aren't. When pressure bleeding the air bubbles aren't solid things that can be forced out in a solid stream. They can stick to surfaces and fluid pass around them for a bit. The stream of fluid drags them along rather than pushes them along. I think part is because of the compressibility of air and part due to surface tension, or maybe magic, who cares? Let's go with stubborn magic bubbles. Anyway, moving on.

Once you see a solid stream you refill the reservoir and pump at least half out in a single bleed while watching for more bubbles. Any bubbles result in refilling and trying again. I have not had had to slam on brakes or adjust pedals or any of the other things mentioned here on any of the Lotus brakes (or other brands) I have bled after learning this. I had plenty of trouble in the beginning trying to be fast and save fluid or whatever. It just takes more patience and fluid. The same applies to pressure bleeding coolant systems with the same bleeder. Fluid costs less than my time so I still like my bleeder. Just keep in mind there will be extra fluid required.

 

Reason I have always been a fan of speed bleeders. Pedal pumping with 1 person.

 

Yeah, I personally got the best results using a pressure bleeder on the reservoir, a suction bleeder at the caliper end, and having someone pump the pedal as I open and close the nipple. The pressure and suction helps prevent any air from finding its way back in while you are opening/closing the nipple, and it's really pushing the pedal that moves the fluid.

The way that the ABS is setup, once air gets into it, you cannot get it out by manually bleeding, so you must either activate the ABS while driving and pump it out that way, or use the lotus scan tool to run the ABS pump with the brake bleed function.

 

I’ve owned 2 Elise’ and 2 Exige S’ (Heavy track use). The only way to bleed the brakes effectively is to have an OEM Lotus Scan tool (find someone who has one). Believe me, I’ve tried many times to bleed them without the tool using every recommendation I could find. Nope. Still soft pedal. Use the scan tool and the pedal is rock hard. You need to get the air out of the ABS module and the scan tool is very effective in opening up the valves to let the air out.

 

The only way to bleed the brakes effectively is to have an OEM Lotus Scan tool (find someone who has one).

This is exactly why I keep saying we need to figure out other, more common cars that use(d) the same ABS module. Then an OBD tool could be used to bleed the ABS module. The CAN commands won't have been made custom for Lotus.

 

This is a bit of a side topic, but for those who use vacuum bleeders, how do you seal the vacuum line to the brake fluid line?

The seal between the nipple and caliper is a compression seal created by the cone shape at the end of the nipple to the mating metal of the caliper. As soon as you unscrew the nipple, just a little, you open up an airway past the nipple through the threads.

I see air making it's way through the threads even when I use my Motive to bleed the brakes as air bubbles in the line that I use on the nipple to the wasted bottle. The bubbles reduce the more I close the nipple. So there's no way to make a good seal just by fitting a tube over the nipple.

 

This is a bit of a side topic, but for those who use vacuum bleeders, how do you seal the vacuum line to the brake fluid line?

The seal between the nipple and caliper is a compression seal created by the cone shape at the end of the nipple to the mating metal of the caliper. As soon as you unscrew the nipple, just a little, you open up an airway past the nipple through the threads.

I see air making it's way through the threads even when I use my Motive to bleed the brakes as air bubbles in the line that I use on the nipple to the wasted bottle. The bubbles reduce the more I close the nipple. So there's no way to make a good seal just by fitting a tube over the nipple.

TBH, I have found that you cannot effectively vacuum bleed the lines in these cars for the reasons you stated. I mainly have used it to a) catch the fluid that I'm bleeding since it has a handy container that it sucks into and b) try and prevent air from flowing back through the threads by continuing to pull a small amount fluid while closing the nipple. Even the pressure bleeder requires someone to press the brake pedal while bleeding, the flow I get at the rear wheels is minimal when using the pressure tool, probably related to how the fluid needs to flow from the reservoir through the ABS and into the lines.

 

Man! All this brake bleeding talk has me wondering if I bled my brakes right last time. And as little as I drive her, I may need to go for a test and tune run, which Im sure local law enforcement will understand. So what was it again; 100mph and slam on the brakes?

 

100mph and slam on the brakes?

I note that I was able to induce ABS on a deserted paved road at 80mph when I was dealing with the soft pedal issue after my SS line installation in 2024. Don't think you need to get all the way to 100mph. 🤷‍♂️

 

I personally like vacuum bleeding or old school peddle pumping with a one way bleeder bottle.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all11017?seid=srese1&ppckw=pmax-tools&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0NPGBhCDARIsAGAzpp36_cutZaT6iub7-NFFrO1JiegS075GI1rN6yDUmdPHMrtNzqTumsYaAtQ8EALw_wcB

Pulling vs. pushing. I have never been a fan of the pressure technique, but everyone's experience is different.

I have owned one Elise ('05), one Exige S ('07) and now an Exige 260 ('10). Each one has had a certain amount
of peddle movement prior to feeling the brakes apply. I have never had a dealership use their ABS tool to open the chambers and bleed.
Just home "shade tree" work that has all yielded very similar peddle feel and operation.