The Lotus Cars Community banner
Cancel
Create thread New Garage Forums
  • Hi there! Why not register as a user to enjoy all of the benefits of the site? You may register here. When you register, please pick a username that is non-commercial. If you use a name that appears on any search engine commercially, you must pick another name, whether it applies to you or not. Commercial usernames are for supporting vendor use only. If you want to become a supporting vendor and grow your business, please follow this link. Thanks!

91 craptane california gas

1 reading
Jump to Latest
2.2K views 15 replies 14 participants last post by  Kamsden  
J
#1 · (Edited)
My first real post. Please be gentle... :)

I'll try and be brief. I'm coming from both the Miata and Vette communities with certain experiences that force me to ask some questions about the Elise (and to a certain extent, the Exige, but this the Elise area so we'll focus on that). I spent a bunch of time and money supercharging and suspensioning (technical term) my Miata and learned a lot along the way regarding the crappy 91 octane gas we get out here in California. Dealing with ping under boost is a very real issue for that car and I wonder how robust the tuning is on the non-intercooled versions of the Elise? I know there are kits out there that can add intercoolers but I haven't dug into the CARB legality of those yet, let alone the extra cost. Is there anything to worry about along those lines?

Second (for now), has to do with handling feel. As previously mentioned I have a reasonably modified Miata (200whp and upgraded suspension focused on performance, NOT stance) as well as a C6 Z06. Two very different approaches to performance. To be completely honest, given a canyon road I'll have much more fun in the Miata even though it's obviously slower. As currently set up, they both have about the same cornering performance, but the Vette obviously owns the scrappy little guy coming out of every corner. The problem is, the Vette feels lifeless. There's little if any feel relative to the Miata. I've driven both on track extensively as well, and the Vette starts to come into its own from a feel standpoint there, but you have to be so committed, beating it like a rented mule that you're really more working than dancing. Consequently, I'm selling the Vette to fund the purchase of an Elise (or high-mileage Exige?) under the premise that the Lotus is going to be far more like the Miata (just more so) than the Vette. This may be a very slightly partial crowd :)rolleyes:) but I'd like to hear from other Vette/Miata converts on their experiences.

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
For the naturally aspirated cars, you'll have no trouble with the California 91 octane. I'm in the SF Bay Area and have to run the same crappy fuel. I even have a Vision Function NA tune on my ECU and have never had a problem at any of the trackdays I've done or during ay to day driving.

As far as the handling, it'll definitely be much more like your Miata. The Lotus is a momentum car, doesn't have a lot of power (but enough to be fun), and the handling is amazing. In fact if you want more diversity in the garage, I'd probably say sell the Miata instead of the Corvette! The interesting thing is that it's actually sort of hard to hoon it up in an Elise. The tires have so much grip for the level of power so unless it's raining, the car doesn't even really break traction all that much from standstill (in a straight line I mean.)

I don't have a ton of seat time in a Miata but my dad had a 1990 base model that I drove for about year back when I was in college and now he has a 2013(?) Miata hardtop convertible. I autocrossed the 1990 a few times and the experience was similar to the Lotus although with much less power. His miata was bone stock and in 1990 I think they only had about 116 hp.
 
#3 ·
You start out your post with complaining about the poor octagon ratings in the Socialist Republic of California. Are you enjoying Jerry Brown yet...again? I'm assuming you are feeling out the possibility of modifying an Elise to Exige specifications...

My guess is that the Elise and the Miata should feel about the same. If you want the power, you'll be forced into an Exige to remain CARB legal because I don't know of a single CARB legal engine modification to any of the Lotuses.

I have had a 1969 Corvette with the 427 engine...but that was a truck compared to the Datsun Z cars of a few years later. A very fast truck in a straight line, but so fast that you were not driving it down the freeway, but aiming it. That has its laughs, but noting like an Exige.

On the track, there isn't a single sedan/sports car that can keep up with you in the corners. Down the straights, it gets old when the built Vetts and Camaros pass you by...even in the Exige. But you will king of the canyons in southern California in the Exige.
 
J
#4 ·
chiarov, I do kinda like the diversity side of things as when I go to the track with my wife we take both cars. Jumping from one to the other forces me to work on different techniques. Also, it's nice to NOT be the rolling chicane every once in a while. Unfortunately, the financial man-maths require the Vette to go to fund the Elise. The Miata just isn't worth enough to keep things revenue-neutral. I am also much more attached to the Miata. Go figure.

m.g.k., Yeah, Brown... Don't get me started.

I wasn't thinking about supercharging a normally aspirated Elise (famous last words...) but the concern was really about the factory supercharged Elise. Granted the Miata is running at ~10lbs of boost with a 10.5:1 compression ratio so some kind of charge cooling is necessary, but I'm not sure what the Elise SC motor's boost and compression ratio numbers are and how much headroom is in the tuning if you get a bad tank of gas. Nervous-nelly stuff aside, I've lost an engine before to this and don't want to repeat the experience.
 
#6 ·
jwalton said:
I wasn't thinking about supercharging a normally aspirated Elise (famous last words...) but the concern was really about the factory supercharged Elise. Granted the Miata is running at ~10lbs of boost with a 10.5:1 compression ratio so some kind of charge cooling is necessary, but I'm not sure what the Elise SC motor's boost and compression ratio numbers are and how much headroom is in the tuning if you get a bad tank of gas. Nervous-nelly stuff aside, I've lost an engine before to this and don't want to repeat the experience.
Click to expand...
My 2 cents from a "tracking" perspective, the N/A Elise will be faster than the factory-tuned non-intercooled Elise S/C -- high IATs will decrease timing on the latter to the point that it will produce the same (perhaps even less) power than the N/A car and weigh more with added complexity.

You seem to be an avid trackster, so be aware that you will want to modify the stock Elise suspension significantly for the car to perform to your standards. Other mods (including a baffled oil pan, etc) will also be needed, including improved cooling depending on your "hot' weather use at tracks like Buttonwillow and WSIR.

By way of comparison …. a race/track (seriously) prepped Lotus Elise compared to the new Global Cup MX5 both driven by excellent drivers (same day, same track), the Elise turns lap times that are ~5 seconds faster on a 3.4 mile track config. at Spring Mountain. A relatively stock Elise with Nitron shocks on slicks turns approximately the same lap times as the Global Cup MX5 both driven by excellent drivers.
 
#5 ·
I used to have a '97 Miata R package which I did numerous mod's to. I played with it on Gingerman Raceway in South Haven, Michigan for about five years. The Miata was a real blast, a great car to learn to drive and control at the limits. I used to think that no car could really be that much better than this without spending six figures. I was so wrong. I have an '08 Exige now, and wow. In some ways I feel like I know nothing now because the most limiting factor with the Lotus isn't the car, but it's my minds own limits and comprehension of what is possible.

In the words of Ferris Bueller.....if you ever get the chance to drive one I highly recommend it, they are quite choice. Paraphrasing. Never mind he was talking about some red car of some sort.
 
#7 ·
Currently own a 07 NA Elise. Coming from a 02 Miata with almost every Flyin Miata upgrade out there. Hydra turbo, chassis upgrades, suspension, brakes. I'm not a track guy, but I've had some spirited drives.

I felt that my completely stock Elise was comparable to my modified Miata. The miata was faster, and had a lot more bottom end power & torque. The Elise felt a little more alive and connected my senses to the driving experience. The only initial downside was that I felt more body roll in it than I was comfortable with...so I fixed that quickly. I find that the Elise has to be driven differently...so I'm still getting used to that.

I haven't really formulated all my thoughts on this yet. For a fun drive, I'd take the Elise over it any day...but the Miata was a little comfortable and easier to take places.
 
#8 ·
I think you'll like that the Elise holds its value better than the Miata and Corvette. Braking feel is much better on the Z06 than on the Elise. The Elise feels aero-limited at the top-end. The Exige's bodywork leads to a more stable ride at the top end. Most tracks won't give you enough straight to test the top-speed, however.
 
#10 ·
Have owned 3 Miata. Tracked two of them with the last one being a supercharged 95 R package.
The Miata is about the easiest car out there to drive at/beyond the limits.

I remember coming in way too hot into turn one at NHMS. Found myself in a 4 wheel drift at a higher rate of speed than I cared to be at. The car, with proper input, tucked back in nicely and without much drama.

The Elise requires more skill to drive at the limits, but is a more rewarding experience. The Miata was always fun on the track and tooling around town, but the Elise feels much different. Special really. Feels like a baby race car.

As mentioned above, baffled oil pan, 1/2 tank+ of gas and upgraded, properly torqued toe links.

As far as brakes go, very happy with Carbotechs and stopping power is impressive.

Good luck.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Here in Pinellas Co. Florida, we can get (unleaded) non-ethanol Sunoco 93 pump octane (at select stations and fuel depots). I mix it 4/1 with VP C-110 racing fuel which is unleaded, non ethanol, 105 pump octane. That bumps up the sauce to just under 95 pump octane. I make it up in 5 gallon cans and dose it with Stable - storage fuel stabilizer cause the car sits more than it goes. This has been working great so far in my non-inter cooled SC. So much trouble is fuel related so why take chances? Back in the day, I used to notice on cross country trips that "flatland gas" was always lower octane than "mountain gas". My dad used to bitch about that cause he swore he could feel the difference in his Ford Thunderbird V-8 engine in the '57 Fairlane-500.
 
The Lotus Cars Community
posts
2.8M
members
56K
Since
2002
A forum community dedicated to all Lotus owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Lotus Discussions Lotus Elise Closed/Sold Parts Lotus Evora Closed/Sold Cars