[Lotus F1]

Sounds great! Waiting ever so patiently

 

[jman66]

Correct me if i'm wrong but OP was asking for feedback from people who have a charlie-x tune.... as that's what his new car has.... not an advert on the 'latest and greatest' :shrug:

 

[Lotus F1]

Correct me if i'm wrong but OP was asking for feedback from people who have a charlie-x tune.... as that's what his new car has.... not an advert on the 'latest and greatest' :shrug:

Ok I'll correct you lol, he wanted opinions on the tune. One of the many "opinions" was that there may be better options. His original post if you read it seemed like he wanted as much info and had many questions. How is knowing more a bad thing. We are not in court here and this is not an ad that an OP was selling something that could be ruined. That I could understand. It's just a person looking for info.

There's no territory to protect here

 

[aschen]

Also a fun thing about internet forums is that there is no obligation to stay 100% on the ops subject. Though it is in bad taste to completely derail imho

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AutoGuide.Com Free App

 

[evansp60]

So I can still save money by sending my ECU by mail, have someone pry off the back and hack my program with outdated technology?......gooody!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[cashxdr]

So I can still save money by sending my ECU by mail, have someone pry off the back and hack my program with outdated technology?......gooody!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Yup. And have a outstanding guy to support you also.

I had a old Charlie tune, then went to Kold Fire as inwas one of the testers and it was done on a dyno and vast improvement (no surprise due to a dyno tune) my Katana, but went back to the Charlie tune with the VF2 because Jermaine had taken over tuning. He has had some updates on his tunes over the years and has done a super fast job of turn around which is why I mentioned contacting him

Also I wouldn't of figured out my data logger without him and it was not his product or his job so +10 for helping a guy out

And my problem I had recently was the ECU so no matter who's product I would of used, I would be pulling out the ECU and mailing it

So bravo for your comment and your vast experience with the Charlie X tunes to help Gunpilot out with his question

 

[cashxdr]

Forgot to add that the Jermaine tunes ran very similar to my Kold Fire tune and I have been very happy with both.

Regardless who's stuff you choose, it really comes down to getting a live tune on a dyno by someone that understands the system to get a car really tweaked in.

But that boils down to what you want to do with the car. My girlfriend is more than happy with the Lotus Sport tune on her 06, while I always want more power but its consistency and drivability for my track sessions is becoming my main priority and where my Jermaine tune has been outstanding for me.

Just had a track day last Monday and another VF2 car was there and we talked about the power and how it comes on he was very happy with his and how it runs like I am with mine

I keep hoping a BOE SC car shows up at a track day as I have never seen one in person. They look impressive from the pics and looking forward to talking with the owner and seeing it do laps

 

[turbophil]

Cash-

W/ due respect, you're missing the point. It's not comparing the VF power to the BOE power as you implied in your last post. There's plenty of pride floating around with everyone's relative purchased. This is about tuning and that's all.

It's a simple matter of fact. The "other tuners", whether more expensive or cheaper tunes, do not posses the ability to tap into the depths of the ECU that the fastworks editor does. That is the case whether the car is on the dyno, track, or street when the car is dialed in.

Pictures speak a 1000 words. Below is a simple map compare. I had a customer in not long ago. Had a fine running Gotham Exige. It was just that, a fine running car. Made good power too... I drove it. It went from A to B OK, but it really seemed incomplete in the power band despite making good power on the dyno. The pics below are a "map compare" feature. In this case, I compared the Gotham tune the car came in with to a Cup240... In the second pic, I'm comparing the Torqu300 tune I sent the car home with to the same Cup240 tune. The screen shots are only showing the parameters that are changed from the Cup 240 tune. On the gotham tune, one (1) thing was changed from the cup240 tune. On my tune, I had to paste together two screen shots to show all the headings I changed from the same cup240 tune.

The Gotham tune was running the same "everything" as the cup240 except a slight fueling change. We changed nearly every parameter in the ECU:crazyeyes

Do you see now with the pictures?? No body else can do what we can do. Truly, nobody... If they could, they would, because all those little changes in the Torque300 map transformed that customers car night and day...

-Phil

 

[robains]

The best thing you can give your car is in the task bar from Phil's picture ...

 

[cashxdr]

I wasn't talking power at all. Gunship did not mention it had a SC so we are talking about stock tunes. The only experience I had with different companies was when I had my Katana. I stayed with Kold fire until I added some things and they had moved out of Dayton and gone to your company. I had asked Jermaine previously when I had the old Charlie tune to update it but ran into Dave first. After he want available any more I had Jermaine do a tune for my add ons and were very happy with them

My girlfriends car is stock and she had the Lotus Sport tune installed which lowers the 2cam. I did some horse trading for that tune but couldn't see spending the money to tune the stock setup as I drove mine for 2 years previously with no tune

Like I said, it comes down to what the customer wants. He has the Charlie tune and if he feels it is lacking Jermaine would probably just update him

So with that said. He could get a update for free or shop around for the other tunes. If he is keeping her car stock and not racing take the free newest tune, but if the plan is for autox's and track days, then there is Jermaine, Kold Fire and your option, but they must truly be done on a session of dyno and driving.

All these options seem a bit expensive for a stock setup and most probably should be putting away pennies for a SC of their choice to get the most out of the expensive options

I was quite honest about liking to see a BOE powered car. I only know mine and another VF2 car and would love to get the chance to see, talk and get a ride. Makes it better for the whole community when we share our babies and talk shop. And even better when we can take them out for some laps as its all about fun anyway

There is a couple of fast drivers out there that no matter how much power I have, they are so smooth and constant that the make fools of us all day long in their NA cars. But they are happy to share and teach. That's the beautiful thing I have found with the Lotus community

 

[cashxdr]

Sorry Gunpilot, gunship just slipped out

On another note, the NA cars that are beating up on us are pure stock with no tunes, just upgraded toe links and I think Morgan has single adj nitrons. I know Skiff's car is pure stock. (I hang my head low and hope to learn as much from him as possible)

I need seat time, seat time and more seat time

 

[turbophil]

Cash-

I understand your path, but what I'm demonstrating is that as it relates to tuning, and to the OP's question, the tune in his car is likely just a Lotus tune with only very slight modifications - if any... If it's a NA car, it's likely just a Lotus Sport tune with the lower cam switch...

So if folks are happy paying for what are essentially slightly tweaked (if that) Lotus tunes, then I guess that's their deal. Again, that's all we had back in the day, there's certainly not much of a reason to still settle for that though...

To that end, cash, I'd bet the tune in your car is just a slightly tweaked Lotus tune and that's why I know there's a lot more potential left in that setup I also know it needs a post IC IAT to work correctly... I'd also bet ya a steak dinner that your old ECU was mechanically fine

-Phil

 

[cashxdr]

I am hoping the ECU is good too since I don't want to pay for the brand new one that was sent to me. I will find out next week. I did send him a return shipping label so I have faith that my Old ECU is good, it just got in a very unhappy mode or something. Plus I never got it reflashed after I fixed the manifold/vacuum leak.

Like you said, I was too close to be able to see

I have pre and post IC AIT's as I am going to data log to check efficiency of the intercooler and what affects the temp.

I do not know how to wire the post AIT into the ECU but that would be cool

 

[Certified Lotus]

I had a Charlie X tune on my Exige S for years. Custom program for the mods I had at the time. Nice increase in Power & torque. No fault codes ever, but the stalling at idle would happen every once in a while. Was very happy the whole time. Plug & Play.

Then Phil came along with Koldfire tune for my car with the ever increasing mods done to it. And here is the big difference, I had a couple of live conversations with Phil about a custom tune for my car due to all the mods and he gave me real world advice on various aspects of fuel injectors, fuel pumps, air filters, etc. My cable shows up with a code to download my tune and in minutes everything is working perfectly (and no more idle stall). The HP and torque increase was substantial over the Charlie X.

As said before, the Lotus community owes Charlie X a lot of praise as he provided a plug and play enhancement that was not available anywhere. Since that time, newer technology and more suppliers have become available.

And now Phil has bumped it up a notch again :-0

 

[shay2nak]

I had Charlie tune my car 3-4 times in the past when he was still part of the community. He did excellent work for me and spoke highly of him. The last tune of his was awesome and like an idiot, I decided to drop in a 3.1" & 550cc. Without Charlie around I had VF do the tune and although both live tunes came out great, the car didn't run correctly once on the street. All in all, it was a bad experience. Wasted lots of time & money.

What I'm saying is that while Charlie was around it was great, but now it's time to move on to bigger and better things. Especially since it seems there are more variables to adjust with FW, especially knock and IAT, which should help my case immensely.

I don't really have high hopes this will fix my car since it hasn't run right for the past 2 years. So with my week off during 4th of July I hope the car will be ready to rip up the canyons like I used to.

 

[robains]

I had Charlie tune my car 3-4 times in the past when he was still part of the community. He did excellent work for me and spoke highly of him. The last tune of his was awesome and like an idiot, I decided to drop in a 3.1" & 550cc. Without Charlie around I had VF do the tune and although both live tunes came out great, the car didn't run correctly once on the street. All in all, it was a bad experience. Wasted lots of time & money.

What I'm saying is that while Charlie was around it was great, but now it's time to move on to bigger and better things. Especially since it seems there are more variables to adjust with FW, especially knock and IAT, which should help my case immensely.

I don't really have high hopes this will fix my car since it hasn't run right for the past 2 years. So with my week off during 4th of July I hope the car will be ready to rip up the canyons like I used to.

I guess no one "got it" ... or maybe just ignored it ... I was referring to the two EFI icons Phil has in his toolbar.

If you had an EFI ECU with logging, you could easily diagnose why your engine isn't running within your expectations. Who knows, it may not even be tune related -- it could be injector seals (top and bottom), injector wiring, bad injector, etc. etc.

Obviously I'm EFI bias, and I'll admit it had some early issues, but EFI tech has released several firmware updates and new versions of their editor/analysis software to address all the issues. It's a very solid solution now, even for street cars, and is VERY flexible. Heck, I'm still running the EFI 1.2 ECU some 5 years later, they're on their X2 now.

I honestly don't know much about the stock ECU -- does the stock ECU have the ability to log all engine parameters at 100Hz so they can be analyzed later via software?

Rob

 

[Gunpilot]

Oh god this thread is getting out of control!

I can seriously feel the love!

Lets all just drive fast and how we do it doesn't matter.

Plain and simple, if my car goes fast with no hickups, im happy and I feel alive! On the track, autocross, street. And I drive an AH-64D everyday, when that **** gets boring we have a problem. I solved that problem with the car.

Soon I will have one car with Koldfire, one with CharlieX. Do what I ask of it and we are good!

BTW......I'm selling Aux air conditioners and Tank tops for women!

 

[Mr. Know]

Just bought an 05 Elise for the wife. It has a Charlie X tune.

Very unfamiliar with them. Know Koldfire well, very satisfied with it on my Exige.

Comments, concerns, bitches, gripes, accolades, ect.......

Load me up, I want to know what you think about this tune!

Yes, I have a lot of questions tonight.........

Is the Elise NA or Supercharged? I think that's one question no one asked...

 

[turbophil]

Just bought an 05 Elise for the wife. It has a Charlie X tune.

Very unfamiliar with them. Know Koldfire well, very satisfied with it on my Exige.

Comments, concerns, bitches, gripes, accolades, ect.......

Load me up, I want to know what you think about this tune!

Yes, I have a lot of questions tonight.........

Is the Elise NA or Supercharged? I think that's one question no one asked...

GP- I think you got exactly what you asked for, "Comments, concerns, bitches, gripes, and accolades"... I didn't see any flaming above.

Mr. Know- Good question

 

[turbophil]

I honestly don't know much about the stock ECU -- does the stock ECU have the ability to log all engine parameters at 100Hz so they can be analyzed later via software?

Rob

Rob- the stock ECU doesn't have internal memory for logging in the same fashion our EFIs do. You can log somewhere is the neighborhood of 10-50hz (speed depends on a few things in the laptop scenario) with a laptop connected or use an AIM device or similar on the CANBUS to log. That's plenty fast for tuning the car. 100hz is for logging chassis movement. Very few things on the the engine need 100hz logging. As you know, the EFI logger would be full in just a half dozen minutes logging all the needed motor channels at 100hz... If you're referring to your experience diagnosing crank or sync errors on the EFI, those don't exist on the OE ECU. The OE ECU picks up both peaks and valleys of the crank signal. Quite a bit different deal. The ability to log is there and perfectly adequate for tuning with MUCH faster data speeds than traditional OBD...

Cons of the stock ECU for racing, that are just off the hip:

-It doesn't daisy-chain to external telemetry devices with PnP ease like a Motec or EFI does.
-It doesn't utilize internal memory in the same way the EFI does (although, the internal EFI memory is really just a quick diagnostic tool. You still use external loggers for heavy lifting).
-It doesn't have the same external inputs for oil and fuel pressure engine protection (yet)
-In some respects, it's more complicated to tune, as the Stock ECU has dozens more tables and scalars available to tweak than the EFI/Motec. (assuming you didn't have a decent base map, which of course everyone has a decent base map in the ECU)

Pros of the stock ECU for racing:

-It's MAF based and consequently runs perfectly in a wider variety of climate conditions than the EFI/Motec without tinkering with the tune
-It's perfectly configured to the car's hardware as it comes from the factory
-It's already plugged in leaving dollars left over for other mods on the car (level 2 editor and you're done for full access)
-In some respects, it easier to tune, because all those tables I mentioned the stock ECU has that aftermarket ones don't have are already configured for the most part. The MAF sensor makes life pretty easy and it compensates nicely for modifications that impact the VE of the motor without even touching the tune.
-Much more complete diagnostic error codes. When something is wrong, there's a code telling you what's up.
-It has some engine protection features the EFI doesn't (misfire, cam/crank timing/ sensor failures, etc).


I have my track car setup to run the stock ECU and the EFI, as my EFI is attached to a PnP box. I will toggle between the two of them before deciding which one to keep in the car... We've fit over 100 Lotus cars with EFIs and have been pretty happy with them. Figured I'd never go back to the stock ECU on my track car (I obviously prefer the stock ECU for street or mixed use cars). Although the stock ECU technology has progressed far enough that I have to take another look at it even on a dedicated track car...

-PV