[bmgyvr]

For me - turning the calipers over while bleeding allowed the last bit of air to get out. I know it sounds wacky. But it worked for me. once there's air in the lines it always rises to the top. I had to remove the calipers, turn them upside down, bleed them and put them back. After that I got 85% of my brake firmness back. I still haven't tried the ABS trick to go after the other 15%.

You think I still need to do this with the QWKbleed lines I have installed on my fronts? I kind of figured that was the whole idea with them was to not have to do the flippity flop.

 

[rb26dett]

You think I still need to do this with the QWKbleed lines I have installed on my fronts? I kind of figured that was the whole idea with them was to not have to do the flippity flop.

Just do old school pump the pedal while bleed. I’ve been through what you are going through.

 

[carbuff]

I will reinforce two points brought up in this Topic, in the above posts:

1. Un-bolt and turn over the calipers when bleeding. Apparently they can trap a bit of air inside on Elises.​

​

2. Do a couple rapid pumps while manually bleeding the pedal, the velocity will help purge air.​

​

++++++++++++++

Our Elise's brakes actuate at a lower point in pedal travel than our other cars... matter of fact, another owner commented on this trait when we switched rides. But they are firm and easily modulated, so I have just assumed that the pedal rod needs to be adjusted.

Good luck!

 

[Redslaya]

it may sound silly to ask but just to verify: you have the correct caliper on the correct side, with the crossover tube facing down, correct?

 

[bmgyvr]

it may sound silly to ask but just to verify: you have the correct caliper on the correct side, with the crossover tube facing down, correct?

Yes... lol this isn't my first time rebuilding or bleeding calipers, just my first time on a Lotus. I went with the QWKbleed lines as I spent far too long researching and hoping to avoid these kinds of issues with those front AP calipers.

 

[bmgyvr]

I am curious if there is a possibility that my brake pedal is now just actually set too far forward... maybe someone can tell me but I was reading and it seems like people often want to raise the brake pedal to make heel toe easier by getting it inline with the throttle pedal. Well, looking at my pedal box my throttle pedal sits farther back than my brake pedal at rest. I am wondering if adjusting the brake pedal down a bit may help here?

 

[exigegus]

Worth trying:
Take a pad out[cause brand new pads]or put an old well worn pair in
pump to extend the pistons.
Push them back in with clamp screwdriver,/whatever
all four corners
Point is to push a bunch of fluid backwards.
Make sure the reservior doesnt overflow

 

[bmgyvr]

Worth trying:
Take a pad out[cause brand new pads]or put an old well worn pair in
pump to extend the pistons.
Push them back in with clamp screwdriver,/whatever
all four corners
Point is to push a bunch of fluid backwards.
Make sure the reservior doesnt overflow

Yea, this was one of the first things I did just to dislodge things. I feel like I am making slow progress. It feels better with each bleed although not much air is coming out.

 

[bmgyvr]

So I did the same thing you did when I painted my calipers on my S1. I have a Motive bleeder as well and I bled it so many times but the pedal still felt sloppy. I then went old school and had my son pump the brakes hard while I bled and using this technique got my pedal to a nice firm feel. Motive bleeder is great when you’re just flushing out old fluids. If you already have air in the system then Motive is not so great. Go old school and have someone pump while you bleed.

Well you win. That was the method. Had my wife assist me with an old fashioned bleed and it firmed the pedal up a looooot. Thank you!

 

[6TVRs+]

Well you win. That was the method. Had my wife assist me with an old fashioned bleed and it firmed the pedal up a looooot. Thank you!

Glad you solved it!
I have a pressure bleeder I've used before and it was okay... old school bleed improved that. BUT, based on a recommendation here on LT I picked up a one-way bleeder kit and used on my Solstice and was impressed by how hard the pedal was after!

Looking forward to trying on my Elise!!

 

[chuck_risen]

I've been using a Motive bleeder for years and there is a bit of a trick to them. For instance, while bleeding you may see a bunch of bubbles, then a solid stream, and you think you are done and close the nipple and move on. This sounds strange but you aren't. When pressure bleeding the air bubbles aren't solid things that can be forced out in a solid stream. They can stick to surfaces and fluid pass around them for a bit. The stream of fluid drags them along rather than pushes them along. I think part is because of the compressibility of air and part due to surface tension, or maybe magic, who cares? Let's go with stubborn magic bubbles. Anyway, moving on.

Once you see a solid stream you refill the reservoir and pump at least half out in a single bleed while watching for more bubbles. Any bubbles result in refilling and trying again. I have not had had to slam on brakes or adjust pedals or any of the other things mentioned here on any of the Lotus brakes (or other brands) I have bled after learning this. I had plenty of trouble in the beginning trying to be fast and save fluid or whatever. It just takes more patience and fluid. The same applies to pressure bleeding coolant systems with the same bleeder. Fluid costs less than my time so I still like my bleeder. Just keep in mind there will be extra fluid required.

 

[brgelise]

Reason I have always been a fan of speed bleeders. Pedal pumping with 1 person.

 

[i.r.n00b]

Yeah, I personally got the best results using a pressure bleeder on the reservoir, a suction bleeder at the caliper end, and having someone pump the pedal as I open and close the nipple. The pressure and suction helps prevent any air from finding its way back in while you are opening/closing the nipple, and it's really pushing the pedal that moves the fluid.

The way that the ABS is setup, once air gets into it, you cannot get it out by manually bleeding, so you must either activate the ABS while driving and pump it out that way, or use the lotus scan tool to run the ABS pump with the brake bleed function.

 

[Certified Lotus]

I’ve owned 2 Elise’ and 2 Exige S’ (Heavy track use). The only way to bleed the brakes effectively is to have an OEM Lotus Scan tool (find someone who has one). Believe me, I’ve tried many times to bleed them without the tool using every recommendation I could find. Nope. Still soft pedal. Use the scan tool and the pedal is rock hard. You need to get the air out of the ABS module and the scan tool is very effective in opening up the valves to let the air out.

 

[rb26dett]

Well you win. That was the method. Had my wife assist me with an old fashioned bleed and it firmed the pedal up a looooot. Thank you!

So glad you got it resolved. I only use the Motive when I flush old fluids out. But if reservoir is empty then you have to go old school.

 

[me73]

This is a bit of a side topic, but for those who use vacuum bleeders, how do you seal the vacuum line to the brake fluid line?

The seal between the nipple and caliper is a compression seal created by the cone shape at the end of the nipple to the mating metal of the caliper. As soon as you unscrew the nipple, just a little, you open up an airway past the nipple through the threads.

I see air making it's way through the threads even when I use my Motive to bleed the brakes as air bubbles in the line that I use on the nipple to the wasted bottle. The bubbles reduce the more I close the nipple. So there's no way to make a good seal just by fitting a tube over the nipple.

 

[TNEngineer]

The only way to bleed the brakes effectively is to have an OEM Lotus Scan tool (find someone who has one).

This is exactly why I keep saying we need to figure out other, more common cars that use(d) the same ABS module. Then an OBD tool could be used to bleed the ABS module. The CAN commands won't have been made custom for Lotus.

 

[daveizdum]

Use the scan tool and the pedal is rock hard. You need to get the air out of the ABS module and the scan tool is very effective in opening up the valves to let the air out.

Who did you have to kill to get a Lotus scan tool?

 

[carbuff]

Who did you have to kill to get a Lotus scan tool?

And, Why did you move so far away???? 🥴

 

[i.r.n00b]

This is a bit of a side topic, but for those who use vacuum bleeders, how do you seal the vacuum line to the brake fluid line?

The seal between the nipple and caliper is a compression seal created by the cone shape at the end of the nipple to the mating metal of the caliper. As soon as you unscrew the nipple, just a little, you open up an airway past the nipple through the threads.

I see air making it's way through the threads even when I use my Motive to bleed the brakes as air bubbles in the line that I use on the nipple to the wasted bottle. The bubbles reduce the more I close the nipple. So there's no way to make a good seal just by fitting a tube over the nipple.

TBH, I have found that you cannot effectively vacuum bleed the lines in these cars for the reasons you stated. I mainly have used it to a) catch the fluid that I'm bleeding since it has a handy container that it sucks into and b) try and prevent air from flowing back through the threads by continuing to pull a small amount fluid while closing the nipple. Even the pressure bleeder requires someone to press the brake pedal while bleeding, the flow I get at the rear wheels is minimal when using the pressure tool, probably related to how the fluid needs to flow from the reservoir through the ABS and into the lines.