I'd say just go ahead and put a stock lump in there and run 8psi with a good electronic boost controller. I'd also recommend data logging the AFRs to make sure things aren't whacky... or at least take it to a dyno.

The stock motor is fairly stout if you don't detonate.

 

I have a friend with a long line of turbo cars behind him. He also makes the "good electronic boost controller" a requirement. It only takes a moment of over-boost to damage the engine.

 

In the interest of cost-savings, would I be able to use the existing manual controller to control boost from 0 to 10 psi and have the EFI be able to adjust accordingly? Or is that adding a ton of additional complexity and/or require multiple "tune maps"?

 

Your lowest boost setting is determined by your wastegate spring setup, as well as the wastegate hole size. In other words, if you dial the manual boost controller to the lowest possible setting, the car may still run at 8 psi because that's what the wastegate spring is rated for assuming your wastegate hole is adequately sized. If you have an internal wastegate setup, I think your minimum boost can't be any less than 8psi due to the wastegate hole being too small on the gt28 (look up boost creep). If you have an external wastegate setup, then you can run as low as 5 psi if you install a spring that's rated for 5psi. Usually the external wastegate hole is much larger than the internal allowing you to run lower boost.

No one can really tell you if the tune will cover the lower psi except the one who tuned it, but from my experience I usually tune for lower psi before gradually turn up the boost. So it only depends on how much of a thorough job the tuner did.

I ran a c6x transmission on a 350-400whp street cars for years without any broken gears. Most guys break it on track and I believe it's due to heat because our trans don't come with any cooler.

 

IMHO for learning and developing your driving on track it maybe better to go with a naturally aspirated car. Not only is it more reliable and cheaper to run but it teaches you to use all the momentum and corner speed of the car rather than relying on horsepower on the straightaways to lower your lap times. I think we all have seen N/A Elise and Exiges crush the lap times of cars with over twice the horsepower. That being said more ponies can be very fun!

 

I've already been going to the track for 2 years with my Evora S, so i'm not starting from scratch here. Just trying to keep the power increases reasonable, rather than jumping straight to a monster.

 

A 2zz from a Pontiac Vibe will drop in for the motor, junk yard find for under $1K with 30-40K miles. Learn to drive the car NA and you will have a season to save and figure out what you want to afford for the turbo set up...

 

+1 to what the others have said. Becoming a good driver on track requires practice, and that requires a reliable track car. Dial back the power to the point where your car is reliable - make sure you have a baffled oil pan, fuel starvation solution like surge tank, etc, lots of good advice on this forum. Toyota made a pile of these engines, you can get a nice junkyard one ready to run.

I left power stock in my Elise (218 factory supercharged horses) and have made reliability mods. I've had about 12,000 reliable miles on track so far on one engine, which is only now starting to show any wear. That's done way better for my driving practice than friends' cars who are theoretically much faster, but in practice, sitting in a shop. You'd be surprised how fast these cars are on track with stock power, but good tires and suspensions.

 

At what rwhp levels does the stock transmission become unreliable?

Seems like the E153 and/or upgraded C64s get real expensive real quick.

 

There's really no good answer to that. Some have had the stock transmission survive very high power levels where others have had transmission issues with NA motors.

San

 

Maximum stall loads on components are measurable and very useful, usually in torque loads.
Note tires are involved in this, of course.
A T5 rated at 350 lbs can be run with a 500 lb engine and are often run on track with 800-900 hp.
These ratings always include gearing on transmissions too.

 

Thanks, that's all very helpful conceptually. I'm hoping I can minimize changes to the car as much as possible, as i'm quite budget constrained at the moment. Once I have my grimy paws on the car, I'll be able to make more of an informed decision as to what I end up doing, whether it's a short-term stopgap solution, or a full blown (no pun intended) all in one fell swoop solution. To say i'm excited about how this all turns out would be the understatement of the century. Always been a huge Elige fan, so anxious to see what it can do on track!

On a separate note, I learned that the reason the engine blew was not due to an oil system design issue per se, but rather insufficient oil level after an oil change. I guess the dry sump oil change process is quite different than the traditional wet sump method. Hopefully i don't make the same expensive mistake.

 

A good electronic boost controller is less than $300. I'm using a Turbosmart E-boost street and it's an essential component of my set up. It's not as simple as setting a max level. It will also control boost spiking and boost onset.

Combine that with a stock motor on 8psi and you should be good all day with that turbo.

 

I may try to stick to the manual controller assuming that doesn't open up any reliability concerns, as I want to stay eligible for NASA if i end up racing in the future (as I understand it, NASA ST1 rules prohibit electronic controllers).

Not that I care that much about spec sheet #s, but I am curious what you turbo'd Elige folks are seeing with 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. I would imagine it's tough to put the power down with such a light chassis, right?

 

Took delivery of the car on Sunday. Now that it's official, I can reveal that this is the late kverges' "Blowtus 7-11" car (http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f163/blowtus-7-11-a-87897/) that he raced in NASA ST1. I did not know Keith well, but drive regularly with his Apex Driving Academy, and know that he was an incredibly fast and well-respected driver. I hope i can do this car justice by driving it anywhere close to as fast as he could (doubtful).

Now it's on to the first phase of the project... inventorying all of the parts and figuring out where to go from here engine rebuild-wise...

 

Oh wow! :crazyeyes Just came across this thread. I know you wanted to get into an Elige and looks like you went into it head first! Can't wait to see that thing out on the track. Good luck with the build. :clap:

 

Hey Texevora,

That is a creative idea on location for the A2A intercooler, I was wondering if you could post some photos of the blowoff valve location? I am trying to get a good idea of where it is located for my own build. Also, is it a recirc design or is it an atmospheric setup? And where is the MAF located?

Thanks!!!

Good luck on the build. Considering (based on what I read in the other thread) that Phil at BOE built the engine...I am surprised it is a stock block. I would have thought Phil would have dropped the compression ratio to 10.5:1 or 9.0:1 to boost the power...but maybe the requirements of NASA ST1 require it to remain stock compression ratio. I just don't know enough about the rules.

In terms of future progress of the build...I would say drop a replacement motor into it, dial down the boost pressure, hopefully the fuel delivery will be able to pull itself back accordingly as you don't want to dump to much fuel into the cylinders. So many questions...!!!

 

I may be mistaken, but i think the turbo that's on this car has an internal wastegate i.e. no separate blowoff valve (i could be wrong, i know next to nothing about the turbo world).

As I understand it, the block was not stock, as it had Nikasil lined bores, and Arias 9:1 pistons, as well as Ferrea springs/retainers, possibly other mods as well.

Pictures may be a while, as everything is being packed up for a trip to BOE. The engine, turbo, clutch etc are all removed so it will be several weeks until everything is fixed and put back together. Once the car is back I will be able to take some pictures for you.

 

Ok, that sounds more like a Phil build for sure. If it is pushing 9.0:1 pistons, I am surprised the power was held back so much and that it blew. I am doing a similar build, and we are targeting nearly 400 rwhp with only a few of the goodies described here.

I know that Phil will bring this back to life...so good luck with the build...subscribed to see what happens and how it goes.

 

I saw them trailering this car away from MSRC when I was there in the rain 2 weeks ago. Was that you picking it up?

 

Yep, that was me. Somehow made it to Dallas despite an annoying flat on the trailer that held us up for a bit.

 

The original BOE build info is still on the website.

A Path Less Traveled ? BOE Fabrication

 

Congratulations Tex!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The previous owner accidentally didn't put enough oil into the dry sump system after an oil change, hence the motor blowing. As I understand it otherwise the motor itself was fine (up until running without oil that is, ha).

400rwhp would be INSANE! <evil laugh>

 

If you're going to come down to COTA and want to leave the ferrarris behind you will need all 400 HP. I am saving my monies.....

 

I've apparently got a wonky 3rd gear synchro on the transmission. If any of you have any suggestions on best path forward, I'm all ears.

Current considerations are:

1. replacing the entire transmission with a used ebay C60 unit for $700-1000 - would I even need to swap the 6th gear since the car is used 100% on track?
2. rebuilding the existing C64 transmission with stock parts - no idea how much this would cost from a parts/labor standpoint vs option 1
3. E153 - seems like way too much $ and heavy for this to be worth the hassle

Open to suggestions!

 

Go for the BWR transmission, however you are still likely to develop synchro problems unless you drive pretty carefully IMO. Maybe wait for the carbon synchros from S111?

If you want to go the ebay trans route LMK I have one.

 

hi

If you are sending it BOE. I would at least put in some new pistons and values. That said I run a 275 FF turbo kit with stock engine and trans. I do not have any issues. I also do not drive my car real hard. If this is going to used as a track car i recommend spending the money for a built long block. driving it on the track hard will break stock engine and trans.

 

I have like 5-8000 track miles on mine with the torque 300 kit and I'm not even using any oil ^o^

 

Hi

You have 5-8000 track miles on torque 300HP kit with Stock engine and trans and clutch with no issues?

I have to be gentle with on clutch with 275hp

Ed

 

Oh god not the clutch and trans, many many of them have died. Was speaking of the head and block.