Good questions.

Your Lotus will never be the 1/4 car the the Mustang is. And the Mustang will never be the road course racer that the Lotus is.

Very general rule of thumb is:
Horse Power will define how fast the car can go.
Torque will define how fast it gets to that speed.
Again this is a GENERAL rule of thumb and there are MANY things that can influence this.

The ~390wtq is a very fun number, and one that even a blown 1.8L car will not have (ok maybe with many $$$, but you get the idea).

If you want thrills that don't include the steering wheel and/or the breaks, use your Mustang.

If you want a ton of fun (I know, bad pun but...) that will last more that 1/4 mile or stop light to stop light, choose the Lotus.

If you want both, well, you either spend a lot of money or I hear that the Mustang Laguna Seca is a great car.

 

Thank you for the reply!

It is funny you mentioned the Mustang Boss LS as that was the car I had previously decided to get before failing to find a dealer to sell one to me at MSRP. The Exige is just such a fun little car and quite a head turner...not to mention much less money (used) than the Mustang.

Going to be a tough decision, maybe I will get the Exige and use it for a couple of years then upgrade to something with more balls when I am in the financial position to do so.

A wise man once said to me:

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall.
Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

rotfl

 

...

 

I believe, if I recall correctly the 2005 elise was classified to run the 1/4 in 12.5 secs factory stock. I haven't tested it, and I believe it was Road and track that did. But that was with a car that weighed in at 1890 pounds with a hp rating of 190hp at the flywheel.

When you get into the exige line up, we are talking (if I remember correctly) 100 pounds more in body weight, so it is approximately 1990 - 2000 pounds with which ever power plant you plan to have. However the other aspect you have to consider is that the elise is supposed to produce 18 pounds of down force at 100mph, but the exige is supposed to produce 100 pounds of downforce at 100mph (also if I remember correctly and I am getting my facts straight). So to create that much downforce you have to have that much MORE drag, which means at faster speeds, slightly slower acceleration.

Is it possible to produce the power/push you are wanting to feel...well here is my experience so far then. I own a 2005 elise and I just installed a Vision Function stage 2 S/C kit into my car. I have NOT been able to hit the 2nd cam as I am waiting for the clutch to break in the rest of the way, but at this point in time, the power delivery is great and spot on. The car has TONs of power, but it is VERY everyday drivable. I actually thought it was going to be to much, but truth betold it is like driving the car with the original power plant.

However, when I did try to hit the 2nd cam once, the power delivery was so much that the clutch just spun and the car went no where. So there is still a VERY large monster in my motor that I haven't been able to release yet, but I believe that with this build (no other real modifications to speak of other than the larini decat and BOE silent touch exhaust), the car will break/reach the 11 second barrier with stock tires/235s. With racing slicks and a 245 width, I am pretty sure you will be able to hit 10s, as the power to weight/torque to weight will easily match/destroy your 365hp mustang. Also, midengine/rear wheel drive generally has much better take off than front engine rear wheel drive.

Hope that helps.

 

As doug said earlier the Lotus will never be a drag racer and the Mustang a track carver. Not to say you can't try with either and get them decent, but at the end of the day a vehicle is built for a specific purpose. The lotus was built to turn.

Power to weight ratio doesn't tell the whole story, especially in a case of 2 vehicles that are so different from each other. One is mid-engine high strung, low on power, very low on torque and a suspension designed to optimize tire contact patch while turning. Lightweight with aerodynamics designed to apply down force.

The other is a front engine rear drive, tin can chassis (sorry? built foxes in the past its true), with a solid rear axle. Lots of power and more importantly GOBS of torque. Also not sure if the stang is an AOD car but with a loose converter also helps keep it at optimum power more often. A more normal weight vehicle with aerodynamics with no down force.

So now that we have pointed out those differences, what it really boils down to is this (in a straight line):
The Elise/Exige are very quick cars "around town". So much so that a Stock Exige S is probably equally as capable in little short low speed burst of acceleration as your Mustang. This is due to 2 reasons. One as you pointed out is horsepower/weight is pretty good and at low speeds that IS the dominating factor in acceleration. And the second is traction. 11 second quarter miles has far more to do with traction than it does power, and I am sure you know this. The lotus is pretty much a floor it and go car. Little to no wheelspin unless you are deliberately trying. The mustang on the other hand is probably more of a handful and with normal street tires it is a exercise in trying to just keep it from spinning way to much.

HOWEVER, at high speed (think over 80mph ish) the Elise/Exige's lack of power is VERY apparent. At higher speeds aerodynamics and power begin to dominate the ability to accelerate. An Exige has both low power, and (relatively speaking) poor aerodynamics for going straight since it is designed to create downforce.

Case in point, comparing my Elise to my old mid 10 second 240sx (which I also used to road race). My Elise will destroy my 240 with short bursts of acceleration around town, and even getting on an on ramp. However once on the freeway my 240 could easily pull on my Elise, and at much higher speeds (like over 100) it would begin to put car lengths on my Elise. Around a road course there isn't a competition, the Lotus could run circles around the 240 even on high speed tracks such as Road America.

As a fun demo once I should race my buddies 1000+whp GNX once starting at low speeds. It would really show what I am talking about.

As for the 11 second thing:
11 second capable with what I would consider "minimal modding" is not really possible. Most that have dipped into the 11s have big forced induction, motor swaps, and in many cases have a built motor. I know a few Rev400 kits (the ones that put down well over 300whp) have done it, some of the Honda setups I know have, one or 2 of the higher boost level turbo 2zzs have as well that I know of.

With "mild modding" on an Exige S (basically intake/exhaust/pulley/tune/fuel) expect mid (maybe low if you are an excellent driver) 12s at somewhere around 110.

I believe, if I recall correctly the 2005 elise was classified to run the 1/4 in 12.5 secs factory stock. I haven't tested it, and I believe it was Road and track that did. But that was with a car that weighed in at 1890 pounds with a hp rating of 190hp at the flywheel.

When you get into the exige line up, we are talking (if I remember correctly) 100 pounds more in body weight, so it is approximately 1990 - 2000 pounds with which ever power plant you plan to have. However the other aspect you have to consider is that the elise is supposed to produce 18 pounds of down force at 100mph, but the exige is supposed to produce 100 pounds of downforce at 100mph (also if I remember correctly and I am getting my facts straight). So to create that much downforce you have to have that much MORE drag, which means at faster speeds, slightly slower acceleration.

Is it possible to produce the power/push you are wanting to feel...well here is my experience so far then. I own a 2005 elise and I just installed a Vision Function stage 2 S/C kit into my car. I have NOT been able to hit the 2nd cam as I am waiting for the clutch to break in the rest of the way, but at this point in time, the power delivery is great and spot on. The car has TONs of power, but it is VERY everyday drivable. I actually thought it was going to be to much, but truth betold it is like driving the car with the original power plant.

However, when I did try to hit the 2nd cam once, the power delivery was so much that the clutch just spun and the car went no where. So there is still a VERY large monster in my motor that I haven't been able to release yet, but I believe that with this build (no other real modifications to speak of other than the larini decat and BOE silent touch exhaust), the car will break/reach the 11 second barrier with stock tires/235s. With racing slicks and a 245 width, I am pretty sure you will be able to hit 10s, as the power to weight/torque to weight will easily match/destroy your 365hp mustang. Also, midengine/rear wheel drive generally has much better take off than front engine rear wheel drive.

Hope that helps.

I agree with what you are saying about the aerodynamics and low versus high speed Elise acceleration. However I don't mean to burst your bubble but your quarter mile times are way optimistic. These cars can't do it.

A stock Elise may have run a 13.5 and that would be with a great driver on stock tires. No way anyone (motortrend/r&t included) went 12.5 in a stock Elise unless there was some recording equipment error.

I would be very surprised to see a VF2 car go 11s on stock rubber. It would be great driving if it did. I know my old N/A setup *just* got there, but that was with more power, far more torque, and less weight. A 10 second quarter mile is a pipe dream on a VF2 kit.

 

As doug said earlier the Lotus will never be a drag racer and the Mustang a track carver. Not to say you can't try with either and get them decent, but at the end of the day a vehicle is built for a specific purpose. The lotus was built to turn.

Power to weight ratio doesn't tell the whole story, especially in a case of 2 vehicles that are so different from each other. One is mid-engine high strung, low on power, very low on torque and a suspension designed to optimize tire contact patch while turning. Lightweight with aerodynamics designed to apply down force.

The other is a front engine rear drive, tin can chassis (sorry? built foxes in the past its true), with a solid rear axle. Lots of power and more importantly GOBS of torque. Also not sure if the stang is an AOD car but with a loose converter also helps keep it at optimum power more often. A more normal weight vehicle with aerodynamics with no down force.

So now that we have pointed out those differences, what it really boils down to is this (in a straight line):
The Elise/Exige are very quick cars "around town". So much so that a Stock Exige S is probably equally as capable in little short low speed burst of acceleration as your Mustang. This is due to 2 reasons. One as you pointed out is horsepower/weight is pretty good and at low speeds that IS the dominating factor in acceleration. And the second is traction. 11 second quarter miles has far more to do with traction than it does power, and I am sure you know this. The lotus is pretty much a floor it and go car. Little to no wheelspin unless you are deliberately trying. The mustang on the other hand is probably more of a handful and with normal street tires it is a exercise in trying to just keep it from spinning way to much.

HOWEVER, at high speed (think over 80mph ish) the Elise/Exige's lack of power is VERY apparent. At higher speeds aerodynamics and power begin to dominate the ability to accelerate. An Exige has both low power, and (relatively speaking) poor aerodynamics for going straight since it is designed to create downforce.

Case in point, comparing my Elise to my old mid 10 second 240sx (which I also used to road race). My Elise will destroy my 240 with short bursts of acceleration around town, and even getting on an on ramp. However once on the freeway my 240 could easily pull on my Elise, and at much higher speeds (like over 100) it would begin to put car lengths on my Elise. Around a road course there isn't a competition, the Lotus could run circles around the 240 even on high speed tracks such as Road America.

As a fun demo once I should race my buddies 1000+whp GNX once starting at low speeds. It would really show what I am talking about.

As for the 11 second thing:
11 second capable with what I would consider "minimal modding" is not really possible. Most that have dipped into the 11s have big forced induction, motor swaps, and in many cases have a built motor. I know a few Rev400 kits (the ones that put down well over 300whp) have done it, some of the Honda setups I know have, one or 2 of the higher boost level turbo 2zzs have as well that I know of.

With "mild modding" on an Exige S (basically intake/exhaust/pulley/tune/fuel) expect mid (maybe low if you are an excellent driver) 12s at somewhere around 110.



I agree with what you are saying about the aerodynamics and low versus high speed Elise acceleration. However I don't mean to burst your bubble but your quarter mile times are way optimistic. These cars can't do it.

A stock Elise may have run a 13.5 and that would be with a great driver on stock tires. No way anyone (motortrend/r&t included) went 12.5 in a stock Elise unless there was some recording equipment error.

I would be very surprised to see a VF2 car go 11s on stock rubber. It would be great driving if it did. I know my old N/A setup *just* got there, but that was with more power, far more torque, and less weight. A 10 second quarter mile is a pipe dream on a VF2 kit.

Murray what do you think a 400whp exige would do in the 1/4?


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

 

Agree with everything said above. The Lotus acceleration will feel slow in comparison to your Mustang - no question about it. I had a modified RX-7 set up for road course duty. I did take it to the strip a couple of times just for fun. With twin turbos putting out 320-330 rwhp (higher boost setting) I was able to run a 12.6 in the 1/4 mile. I then switched to a single turbo which on low boost put down 400 rwhp. Never took it back to the strip, but I'd have been disappointed if I didn't get into the very low 12s - perhaps even get an 11.9 if everything went perfectly. I now have a modified Lotus Exige putting down 260 to the wheels and the acceleration is nowhere close to my single turbo RX-7, especially at higher speeds (say above 60 mph). Frankly, I think you will actually be very disappointed with what the acceleration feels like in these cars once you are moving. A run of the mill M3 or Cayman probably merges onto the freeway just as fast. That being said, my first time out at Laguna Seca in a bone stock Exige S240 being conservative and learning the car, I posted almost identical lap times to my modified twin turbo RX-7 in its 280-300 rwhp (lower boost/restricted exhaust for Laguna setting) state. Speeds on the straight were noticeably lower. What the Exige loses in higher speed acceleration I was clearly gaining back braking and cornering.

I think there is a video of someone doing an 11-second run on the BOE TVS system, but I believe the guy is not a novice to the strip and may have even had drag rubber on the car. As the prior poster said, you won't get a Lotus into the 11s without a LOT of work, and your tranny will be on borrowed time. I know what 12 second passes feel like, and agree with the poster above that some of the claimed 12-second times for a Lotus seem very optimistic to me.

 

I have a 2007 C6 Corvette putting down 400rwhp and 395rwtq @ ~3150lbs. My 2007 Lotus Exige S puts down 281rwhp and 180rwtq @ ~2000lbs. Two completely different animals. Both are fast, but in different ways.

There's a canyon I go to with the Lotus that I've never taken the Corvette to. It's just too tight and twisty. There's another canyon I take the Corvette to that I've never taken the Lotus to. Long sweepers and some straight stretches. Pick the right tool for the job.

Both of my cars corner well, but the flickability of the Lotus makes the Corvette feel like a big slow car in comparison. Your Mustang will feel like a barge after you drive an Elise/Exige.

San

 

The mustang is a chainsaw, the lotus a scalpel... Depends on what you want your tools to do.

 

Here is a 400hp turbo elise doing the quarter mile in 11.3
I think that is about as fast as a elige can do the quartermile in.
If 11.3 is not satisfactory, then lotus is not the car for you.

BTW, notice the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear scratches !!!!

 

to hit 11.5s you'll need at least 300whp, IIRC.

i do remember motor trend hit 12.2s with stock exige S220, but i don't think that is repeatable.

 

I don't know where everyone is getting this "information". It seems like internet lore more than any real fact.

I would LOVE to see the motor trend article that has ANY Elise/Exige running a 12.2.

I think we can all agree an S260 is faster than an S220. Here is motor trend's review of the S260. They ran a 13.0 @108. That is a FAR FAR cry from 12.2.
2009 Lotus Exige S 260 - First Test - Motor Trend

Now as for the 11.5 with 300whp. For obvious reasons many people don't take their Elise/Exige to the drag strip but as far as I know there have only been like 2 or 3 people who have data to back up runs 11.5 or better.
The 400hp forced fed elise (assuming normal drivetrain loss around 350whp).
Derek's supercharged K24 elise (I think at the time 340whp)
Dark Sol's built motor, lightened, rev400 car (again I'll venture a good bit more than 300whp).

An 11.5 second pass from a 300whp Elise is possible but only if it had a good driver and used very sticky tires like drag slicks. On any normal street tire, or even R-comp road race tire it just won't happen.

 

I don't understand why he wants the same car that he already has and plans on keeping.

 

I think it's a case of wanting to eat his cake and have it too.

San

 

One of my favorite t-shirts comes to mind

If you are the left side image kind of guy then a Lotus might not be the right car for you

 

One of my favorite t-shirts comes to mind

View attachment 182752

If you are the left side image kind of guy then a Lotus might not be the right car for you

I think he's gonna be sorely disappointed if he is looking for his Lotus to be anything like his Mustang. He needs to change his frame of mind and try to appreciate the Lotus for what it is, rather than what it isn't.

BTW, I love the T--where'd you get it?!

 

Thank you guys for the numerous and informative replies!

I have a Mustang and Miata right now, one for straight line speed and one for cornering, but neither is what I would consider a head-turner. I am going to keep the Miata and turn it into a rally machine/winter vehicle and the Exige is going to replace it during the warmer months.

The Miata is slow as ****, both my cars were made in 1990, and I was just very concerned with the acceleration of the Exige as I have limited experience driving 4 bangers.

I drive on some nice twisty roads every day during my commute which is why I bought the Miata but I am tired of having older cars, and the Exige seems like a great package for the price.

Now the only issue is going to be finding one in a color I like that currently resides in this country...which is proving to be quite difficult.

Thanks again!

 

Around here, its pretty normal to see Miatas (spec) be faster than most everything short of dedicated race cars out on course...

The Miata is slow as ****, both my cars were made in 1990, and I was just very concerned with the acceleration of the Exige as I have limited experience driving 4 bangers.

 

Have you considered a Noble? It's a lot closer to your acceleration goals. Should be comparable in price to an Exige, or maybe slightly more (depending on model, condition, mods, etc.); I've seen several for sale for less than $50k. An M12 was recently on eBay with a buy-it-now for $37k.

 

thats a really good time for your mustang at that WHP.

My feeling is that a NA lotus feels like a "quick" car a stock SC one is on the boarderline of feeling "fast".

11.5 is a "holy crap thats fast car", which will be diffficult to achieve in a lotus, at least reliably.

My units of fastness are very precise! I think the next level is "are you freaking serious?". Im not sure I have been in one of those.

 

rotfl Love the fastness "units". I see you have a very highly tuned reader.

I was once given a ride in a low 8 second high 7 second GN that I tuned. IIRC on the tighter torque converter it was 1620whp!

My description for that one to the owner was "holy **** balls!" I'm pretty sure that is what it feels like to be in one of those Star Trek ships when they go into "warp speed". Once the turbo was full song and it started to really grip in second gear (80mph?) you basically couldn't move and it seemed like everything just start flying by outside. Once he let off you could peel yourself off the back of the seat and everything seemed to come back into view. Made my fastness reader go all out of whack!

 

I was previously looking for a C6Z but decided against it as you see way too many of them, it fits my criteria perfectly except for the looks.

I will check into the Nobles but I am not sure who I would bring it to for service or questions.

I need to make a decision fast, I often lose sleep over this decision! Can't be good for my health...

 

I will check into the Nobles but I am not sure who I would bring it to for service or questions.

There are a few places that specifically work with Nobles (ask on nobleforums.com or check this list). It has a Ford Duratec motor so any competent mechanic should be able to work on it.

 

Hey my straight-line performance goal (which has been met) was to get kicked off the local drag racing track for going faster than 11.500. Any faster than that and you need a full cage. I did that last October with my 11.477 @ 123.45 mph. It's fast and reliable.

I agree that running in a straight line only requires about 20% of the skill of running on a HPDE track but I bought the car to enjoy:

- Daily driving activities and the occasional curvy road (it is Kansas after all )
- Nights out with my wife (and coffee/fun runs with my kids)
- Cruises with the in-town exotics
- Autocross events
- HPDE events
- Once a year drag "let's see what she'll do" events

I would think that's a pretty well rounded experience!

 

My sentiments exactly. Well rounded and used daily.

 

Coming from a total noob with no experience in this sort of discussion, I will say this:

Off the line from a standing start, my '11 SC feels like it needs a second or two to "wake up" and get going. Is this a heavy flywheel issue?

Once moving, in the RPM sweetspot (5000-7500) it feels like the wrath of Satan himself is at work. I don't know, feels bloody fast to me....maybe it's all the wailing of the engine.

 

Once moving, in the RPM sweetspot (5000-7500) it feels like the wrath of Satan himself is at work. I don't know, feels bloody fast to me....maybe it's all the wailing of the engine.

Everything is relative. Once you're used to 400-500 hp with similar amounts of torque, even a moderately modified Elise/Exige (300 hp) feels pretty tame. Unfortunately, cars with this kind of hp/torque are practically a dime a dozen these days, and any M3, Z06 or Challenger SRT8 would show its taillights to most Elises/Exiges in a freeway roll-on.

 

If you want some more oomph just install one of the plethora of supercharger options out now and bump your power up close to 300 hp/180 ft-lb torque. That may not sound like a lot, but it makes these little cars turn into rockets for driving around town. Honestly, there aren't a whole lot of cars that will keep up with modified Lotus in low speed ("stoplight to stoplight") racing.

As other have said, if you are looking for a quarter mile monster, move on. Even if you are looking for a car that can do higher-speed highway runs, there are probably family sedans out now that will straight up walk our cars at speeds over 100 mph. However, I can promise you that you will be content with the acceleration if you are just driving around town or doing smaller road courses.

 

Since u r happy and keeping your Mustang, you'll have the best of both world by getting a 2007+ Exige S. The Mustang gives you the torque and straight line pull, while the Exige gives you the ear to ear grin for making you feel like Michael Schumacher when you go thru the twisties or at a tight track. That is, only if you actually track your car. The Exige S would definitely keep up with most cars from 30-80mph, and is quite qix, but as many have said it is not made for straight line drag.

Like you, I also have a high hp car (a Ford GT with 734rwhp) and I used to go to the track with it for a few years. Then, 3 years ago, it dawned on me that if anything were to happen to that car it would somewhat bother me (as it costs quite a bit more than a Lotus), so I decided to buy an Exige S to mainly do track duties.... I can tell you that the Exige is a very very satisfying car to drive on track and in the street. My track friends ask me what's the difference driving/tracking the 2 cars? My response usually is "same amount of fun, but 1/4 the money with the Exige"; it is because with 200-ish hp in the Exige I feel I can get close to the limit of the Exige while at slower speed, plus, the Exige just hugs the line/road so darn well!

Bottom line, Lotus is a niche car and a happy Lotus owner has to have a certain fanatic attitude towards Lotus. If pure straight line speed is your cup of tea, an Exige might not be the right car for you. An alternative is to look into a 2001-2003 Esprit V8tt. That will give you a satisfying straight line speed, plus very capable in taking turns. I know because I used to own one, and with the race chips, 40-140mph it was literally no more than 2 feet apart running with a Lamborghini Gallardo.

Good luck with your search.

GTED

 

Nb to reader, I might be a little bit biased here :evil:

Two vids:

Clarkson in the Exige vs Stig in the Mustang (series 8, episode 3) - BBC Top Gear



and

:up:

 

Darksol Sounds like the perfect setup!


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

 

I can't believe you got 150 lbs off the car! Its that a dry or wet weight and is there a passenger seat in the car?

 

Sold my 03 SVT Cobra Mustang (500 hp, 500ft/lb torque) to put a down payment on my 08 S240. No comparison at all between the two cars, the Exige puts a smile on my face every time I get in it. No regrets at all, don't really care if I ever drive a mustang again.